Conference Championships

[Dan Smith--BYU]

How is it Allen's fault that his receiver dropped a heroic pinpoint pass? And the refs.

[franco32]

Not sure what else Allen could have done. His chest is past the line to gain on that massive 4th down sneak in Chiefs territory and the Bills in the lead. That was a first down. Camera on the far side showed it. Refs fcked him. Not his fault.

4th and 5, Spags sends another exotic blitz -- Bills fail to pick it up. Allen has TWO guys free chasing him and he puts that pass in Kincaid's arms.

Can't fault Josh in this one. I'd die for a QB like Josh Allen right about now. Of course, he's be wasted by Tomlin but that is another story.

[Havoc]

Kincaid has to make that catch

Would have been 1st and 10 at the Chiefs 36 with 1:54 to go

Bills chasing points cost them

[swissvale72]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??

[SteelerDayTrader]

Go Chiefs !!

Glad they beat Buffalo

Hopefully they crush Philly

Is there a worse fanbase in the NFL than Philadelphia ?? Disgusting people. Disgusting city. Disgusting fans.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??

Better ownership
Better coaching
Better players

Just fix those and we will be fine

[anpsteel]

What is Clete Blakeman looking at? Allen's chest was at the line.

And I think Kincaid got tbt first down play before the 4th down

That was my thought


Bad spot on the 3rd down play just prior

Here's the clip on that play-

he was definitely across the line to gain

https://x.com/sisyphus_onward/status/18 ... 3575881213

[K_C_]

And I think Kincaid got tbt first down play before the 4th down

That was my thought


Bad spot on the 3rd down play just prior

Here's the clip on that play-

he was definitely across the line to gain

https://x.com/sisyphus_onward/status/18 ... 3575881213

The Worthy catch was outright cheating for KC, but I'm not so sure that clip on X convinces me Allen made is past the line to gain.

Allen looked very close to getting there, then turned his back so that one was very close.

[.Kodiak]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??

Scheme and playcalling. Mahomes is also super-elite at finding guys. Helps the way he runs around backwards extending plays and then just flicks his wrist to throw 30 yards for a 10 yard gain.

I would have loved to see prime Ben in an Andy Reid system. A HUGE problem with PIT under Tomlin is, except for the Munchak years, the OL continues to be bottom 1/3 in pass pro. It's no wonder the offense sputters against top-tier teams.

[alancac98]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??
[/quot/

Some of the crossing routes KC ran several times in the 4th quarter were rubs routes that were well into the WR's route. That last ball to Worthy were he was wide open with a guy 15 yards behind him was not because of Worthy's speed. The DB was bumped off his route another KC receiver in the middle of the filed, roughly 10 to 15 yards into Worthy's pattern across the middle. The DB was almost knocked down, that's why Worthy was wide open, but no flag surprisingly. I saw several of those route that intentionally interfered with a DB. I didn't notice it throughout the game, but I wasn't paying attention to it.

[955876]

4th and 5, Spags sends another exotic blitz

We all know what kind of fears Jibba Jabber and his lap dog Austin would have lived in there.

[anpsteel]

That was my thought


Bad spot on the 3rd down play just prior

Here's the clip on that play-

he was definitely across the line to gain

https://x.com/stoolpresidente/status/18 ... 8378949964

The Worthy catch was outright cheating for KC, but I'm not so sure that clip on X convinces me Allen made is past the line to gain.

Allen looked very close to getting there, then turned his back so that one was very close.

I was referring to the play prior to Allen, on 3rd down. In my opinion, he's across the LTG, pretty easily

[gojira5150]

4th and 5, Spags sends another exotic blitz

We all know what kind of fears Jibba Jabber and his lap dog Austin would have lived in there.

Those 2 Idiots would have played a soft zone and got shredded.

[bradshaw2ben]

Here's the clip on that play-

he was definitely across the line to gain

https://x.com/stoolpresidente/status/18 ... 8378949964

The Worthy catch was outright cheating for KC, but I'm not so sure that clip on X convinces me Allen made is past the line to gain.

Allen looked very close to getting there, then turned his back so that one was very close.

I was referring to the play prior to Allen, on 3rd down. In my opinion, he's across the LTG, pretty easily

Allen being across the line to gain on 4th down is a reasonable argument, but I thought the other two calls were correct. Have been hashing it out on X all day.

For starters, at the moment Bishop and Worthy hit the ground, Worthy had the ball grasped near its end in one hand and with his arm tucked against both his body and Bishop’s arm. That’s possession—even if it’s dual possession it goes to the offense. When the contacted the ground, it never moved—even in slow motion it didn’t move. That’s a catch and possession that survived the ground.

On the 3rd down play where Buffalo’s TE was marked short, if you look at the moment his elbow hits the ground, the spot officials marked was damn near exact:

[anpsteel]

The Worthy catch was outright cheating for KC, but I'm not so sure that clip on X convinces me Allen made is past the line to gain.

Allen looked very close to getting there, then turned his back so that one was very close.

I was referring to the play prior to Allen, on 3rd down. In my opinion, he's across the LTG, pretty easily

Allen being across the line to gain on 4th down is a reasonable argument, but I thought the other two calls were correct. Have been hashing it out on X all day.

For starters, at the moment Bishop and Worthy hit the ground, Worthy had the ball grasped near its end in one hand and with his arm tucked against both his body and Bishop’s arm. That’s possession—even if it’s dual possession it goes to the offense. When the contacted the ground, it never moved—even in slow motion it didn’t move. That’s a catch and possession that survived the ground.

On the 3rd down play where Buffalo’s TE was marked short, if you look at the moment his elbow hits the ground, the spot officials marked was damn near exact:

The 3rd down play, I thought his body was in top of the chiefs player, so he hadn’t touched the ground

In respect to the dual catch, you are correct about everything, but in my opinion the ball is still being controlled predominantly by the defender.

Keep in mind that while a tie goes to the receiver, the ball is not yet in control by the receiver, and therefore isn’t controlled period, because if it were, then it would be controlled by the defender, at that stage and he would/should have been ruled down by contact.

And this, imo, is what happened. The defender had the ball, they went to the ground, and 5e offensive player took it away. After they were on the ground

Now with all of that being said, if the nfl wants to suggest that the ball wasn’t possessed by either player at that point, then the ball contacting the ground would automatically cause it to be incomplete.

I will do some research and follow up for the official version

[LakecrestSteeler]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??

Scheme and playcalling. Mahomes is also super-elite at finding guys. Helps the way he runs around backwards extending plays and then just flicks his wrist to throw 30 yards for a 10 yard gain.

I would have loved to see prime Ben in an Andy Reid system. A HUGE problem with PIT under Tomlin is, except for the Munchak years, the OL continues to be bottom 1/3 in pass pro. It's no wonder the offense sputters against top-tier teams.

If you watched Jordan you know how this Super Bowl ends.

What percentage of credit does one give Munchak for pass pro versus just having the zone read running game absolutely humming, which makes pass pro easy? Or does the credit go to Haley?

[Jtf]

Go Chiefs !!

Glad they beat Buffalo

Hopefully they crush Philly

Is there a worse fanbase in the NFL than Philadelphia ?? Disgusting people. Disgusting city. Disgusting fans.

Buffalo is close

[Jtf]

I think most of us realize Buffalo fans are cunts
Fuck them

[Havoc]

Chiefs got the breaks in a game that went down to the wire.

Hopefully the calls go the Eagles way in the SB

[jeemie]

Other thing I wanna know is how the majority of mahomes' passes go to receivers who are wide the fuck open??

Scheme and playcalling. Mahomes is also super-elite at finding guys. Helps the way he runs around backwards extending plays and then just flicks his wrist to throw 30 yards for a 10 yard gain.

I would have loved to see prime Ben in an Andy Reid system. A HUGE problem with PIT under Tomlin is, except for the Munchak years, the OL continues to be bottom 1/3 in pass pro. It's no wonder the offense sputters against top-tier teams.

If you watched Jordan you know how this Super Bowl ends.

What percentage of credit does one give Munchak for pass pro versus just having the zone read running game absolutely humming, which makes pass pro easy? Or does the credit go to Haley?

There's going to be a call in the Super bowl that just rips Eagles' fans hearts out...book it.

And there will be just enough plausible deniability for the NFL.

[bradshaw2ben]

I was referring to the play prior to Allen, on 3rd down. In my opinion, he's across the LTG, pretty easily

Allen being across the line to gain on 4th down is a reasonable argument, but I thought the other two calls were correct. Have been hashing it out on X all day.

For starters, at the moment Bishop and Worthy hit the ground, Worthy had the ball grasped near its end in one hand and with his arm tucked against both his body and Bishop’s arm. That’s possession—even if it’s dual possession it goes to the offense. When the contacted the ground, it never moved—even in slow motion it didn’t move. That’s a catch and possession that survived the ground.

On the 3rd down play where Buffalo’s TE was marked short, if you look at the moment his elbow hits the ground, the spot officials marked was damn near exact:

The 3rd down play, I thought his body was in top of the chiefs player, so he hadn’t touched the ground

In respect to the dual catch, you are correct about everything, but in my opinion the ball is still being controlled predominantly by the defender.

Keep in mind that while a tie goes to the receiver, the ball is not yet in control by the receiver, and therefore isn’t controlled period, because if it were, then it would be controlled by the defender, at that stage and he would/should have been ruled down by contact.

And this, imo, is what happened. The defender had the ball, they went to the ground, and 5e offensive player took it away. After they were on the ground

Now with all of that being said, if the nfl wants to suggest that the ball wasn’t possessed by either player at that point, then the ball contacting the ground would automatically cause it to be incomplete.

I will do some research and follow up for the official version

The WR was clutching the ball in one white gloved hand (near one end of the ball) at the moment they hit the ground. The ball didn’t move when it touched the field. Put those two things together and it does not matter at all if the defender had “more” control prior to that. He would have had to survive the ground without the offensive player gaining control, which he did not.

[LakecrestSteeler]

Scheme and playcalling. Mahomes is also super-elite at finding guys. Helps the way he runs around backwards extending plays and then just flicks his wrist to throw 30 yards for a 10 yard gain.

I would have loved to see prime Ben in an Andy Reid system. A HUGE problem with PIT under Tomlin is, except for the Munchak years, the OL continues to be bottom 1/3 in pass pro. It's no wonder the offense sputters against top-tier teams.

If you watched Jordan you know how this Super Bowl ends.

What percentage of credit does one give Munchak for pass pro versus just having the zone read running game absolutely humming, which makes pass pro easy? Or does the credit go to Haley?

There's going to be a call in the Super bowl that just rips Eagles' fans hearts out...book it.

And there will be just enough plausible deniability for the NFL.

Have you seen the calls the Eagles get?

Fists flying and helmets getting torn off all by the Eagles, and as I said previously, the refs suddenly see an auction breakout during street fights with their beloved Eagles raising paddles not fists to support and raise money in the fight against gang violence.

The egregious calls for the Eagles get camouflaged by lopsided point totals.

[jeemie]

If you watched Jordan you know how this Super Bowl ends.

What percentage of credit does one give Munchak for pass pro versus just having the zone read running game absolutely humming, which makes pass pro easy? Or does the credit go to Haley?

There's going to be a call in the Super bowl that just rips Eagles' fans hearts out...book it.

And there will be just enough plausible deniability for the NFL.

Have you seen the calls the Eagles get?

Fists flying and helmets getting torn off all by the Eagles, and as I said previously, the refs suddenly see an auction breakout during street fights with their beloved Eagles raising paddles not fists to support and raise money in the fight against gang violence.

The egregious calls for the Eagles get camouflaged by lopsided point totals.

Yes but this is the Super Bowl and the Swifties Chiefs will not be denied...

[anpsteel]

Allen being across the line to gain on 4th down is a reasonable argument, but I thought the other two calls were correct. Have been hashing it out on X all day.

For starters, at the moment Bishop and Worthy hit the ground, Worthy had the ball grasped near its end in one hand and with his arm tucked against both his body and Bishop’s arm. That’s possession—even if it’s dual possession it goes to the offense. When the contacted the ground, it never moved—even in slow motion it didn’t move. That’s a catch and possession that survived the ground.

On the 3rd down play where Buffalo’s TE was marked short, if you look at the moment his elbow hits the ground, the spot officials marked was damn near exact:

The 3rd down play, I thought his body was in top of the chiefs player, so he hadn’t touched the ground

In respect to the dual catch, you are correct about everything, but in my opinion the ball is still being controlled predominantly by the defender.

Keep in mind that while a tie goes to the receiver, the ball is not yet in control by the receiver, and therefore isn’t controlled period, because if it were, then it would be controlled by the defender, at that stage and he would/should have been ruled down by contact.

And this, imo, is what happened. The defender had the ball, they went to the ground, and 5e offensive player took it away. After they were on the ground

Now with all of that being said, if the nfl wants to suggest that the ball wasn’t possessed by either player at that point, then the ball contacting the ground would automatically cause it to be incomplete.

I will do some research and follow up for the official version

The WR was clutching the ball in one white gloved hand (near one end of the ball) at the moment they hit the ground. The ball didn’t move when it touched the field. Put those two things together and it does not matter at all if the defender had “more” control prior to that. He would have had to survive the ground without the offensive player gaining control, which he did not.

Slow reply - been a little crazy the past few days

In regard to the 3rd down play- prior to the 4th down QB sneak- the Bills TE had the ball in his right hand, iirc, and it was cradled by his right shoulder. So, while his left elbow came down short of the line to gain, his right shoulder and the ball were well over, imo.

Here is a youtube review. IMO, both the 3rd and 4th down plays reached the line to gain, and were bad spots by the officials.

https://youtu.be/fs-L3jODWdE?si=dO0aJ4jVRVypteM0

The issue with the dual catch, is neither player had control when the ball hit the ground. Worth only had one hand on the ball at that time. There is zero chance he had control.

So, it should have been ruled Buffalo ball, due to down by contact OR incomplete.

The Chiefs receiver did not have control prior to the ball hitting the ground.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9FcpucNPoQc? ... 04owTZsS4-

[bradshaw2ben]

The 3rd down play, I thought his body was in top of the chiefs player, so he hadn’t touched the ground

In respect to the dual catch, you are correct about everything, but in my opinion the ball is still being controlled predominantly by the defender.

Keep in mind that while a tie goes to the receiver, the ball is not yet in control by the receiver, and therefore isn’t controlled period, because if it were, then it would be controlled by the defender, at that stage and he would/should have been ruled down by contact.

And this, imo, is what happened. The defender had the ball, they went to the ground, and 5e offensive player took it away. After they were on the ground

Now with all of that being said, if the nfl wants to suggest that the ball wasn’t possessed by either player at that point, then the ball contacting the ground would automatically cause it to be incomplete.

I will do some research and follow up for the official version

The WR was clutching the ball in one white gloved hand (near one end of the ball) at the moment they hit the ground. The ball didn’t move when it touched the field. Put those two things together and it does not matter at all if the defender had “more” control prior to that. He would have had to survive the ground without the offensive player gaining control, which he did not.

Slow reply - been a little crazy the past few days

In regard to the 3rd down play- prior to the 4th down QB sneak- the Bills TE had the ball in his right hand, iirc, and it was cradled by his right shoulder. So, while his left elbow came down short of the line to gain, his right shoulder and the ball were well over, imo.

Here is a youtube review. IMO, both the 3rd and 4th down plays reached the line to gain, and were bad spots by the officials.

https://youtu.be/fs-L3jODWdE?si=dO0aJ4jVRVypteM0

The issue with the dual catch, is neither player had control when the ball hit the ground. Worth only had one hand on the ball at that time. There is zero chance he had control.

So, it should have been ruled Buffalo ball, due to down by contact OR incomplete.

The Chiefs receiver did not have control prior to the ball hitting the ground.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9FcpucNPoQc? ... 04owTZsS4-

On the 3rd down-- you can see plain as day that the TE did not reach the ball past the line to gain until after hid elbow hit down. He is in the process of starting to reach with it when the elbow hits.

On the "dual catch". look again: Worthy has a tight hold of the ball with one hand... and it does not move at all when it touches the ground. That's a catch.

[anpsteel]

The WR was clutching the ball in one white gloved hand (near one end of the ball) at the moment they hit the ground. The ball didn’t move when it touched the field. Put those two things together and it does not matter at all if the defender had “more” control prior to that. He would have had to survive the ground without the offensive player gaining control, which he did not.

Slow reply - been a little crazy the past few days

In regard to the 3rd down play- prior to the 4th down QB sneak- the Bills TE had the ball in his right hand, iirc, and it was cradled by his right shoulder. So, while his left elbow came down short of the line to gain, his right shoulder and the ball were well over, imo.

Here is a youtube review. IMO, both the 3rd and 4th down plays reached the line to gain, and were bad spots by the officials.

https://youtu.be/fs-L3jODWdE?si=dO0aJ4jVRVypteM0

The issue with the dual catch, is neither player had control when the ball hit the ground. Worth only had one hand on the ball at that time. There is zero chance he had control.

So, it should have been ruled Buffalo ball, due to down by contact OR incomplete.

The Chiefs receiver did not have control prior to the ball hitting the ground.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9FcpucNPoQc? ... 04owTZsS4-

On the 3rd down-- you can see plain as day that the TE did not reach the ball past the line to gain until after hid elbow hit down. He is in the process of starting to reach with it when the elbow hits.

On the "dual catch". look again: Worthy has a tight hold of the ball with one hand... and it does not move at all when it touches the ground. That's a catch.

fwiw, the picture you posted of the 3rd down play, above, the TEs elbow is not on the ground yet. You can tell by the shadows

I had to scroll back and forth on the other video to find the point where his elbow comes down

[bradshaw2ben]

Slow reply - been a little crazy the past few days

In regard to the 3rd down play- prior to the 4th down QB sneak- the Bills TE had the ball in his right hand, iirc, and it was cradled by his right shoulder. So, while his left elbow came down short of the line to gain, his right shoulder and the ball were well over, imo.

Here is a youtube review. IMO, both the 3rd and 4th down plays reached the line to gain, and were bad spots by the officials.

https://youtu.be/fs-L3jODWdE?si=dO0aJ4jVRVypteM0

The issue with the dual catch, is neither player had control when the ball hit the ground. Worth only had one hand on the ball at that time. There is zero chance he had control.

So, it should have been ruled Buffalo ball, due to down by contact OR incomplete.

The Chiefs receiver did not have control prior to the ball hitting the ground.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9FcpucNPoQc? ... 04owTZsS4-

On the 3rd down-- you can see plain as day that the TE did not reach the ball past the line to gain until after hid elbow hit down. He is in the process of starting to reach with it when the elbow hits.

On the "dual catch". look again: Worthy has a tight hold of the ball with one hand... and it does not move at all when it touches the ground. That's a catch.

fwiw, the picture you posted of the 3rd down play, above, the TEs elbow is not on the ground yet. You can tell by the shadows

I had to scroll back and forth on the other video to find the point where his elbow comes down

I went frame by frame of the video and that is the first frame where you can see the impact of the elbow when it hits the ground.

[franco32]

There is no argument on the 4th down play in my mind as Josh has that under his chin and his head is well past the line to gain. Clete Blakeman is blind.

The 3rd down play is a close call but I can see that being short depending on when you think that elbow hit.

The Worthy catch IMO should not have been a catch. I agree with ANP. The Bills defender had the ball tucked on his elbow as well as his other hand. Worthy gets a hand in there but if you watch closely, Worthy is trying to REGRIP the ball as it is going down to the ground. His fingers are in an awkward position. I don't believe he had control of that and I do believe the ground assisted him. To me, the question is "would he have otherwise caught the ball without the assistance of the ground". IMO, he would not.

[anpsteel]

On the Dual Catch, here is the order of events

1. Defender "catches" the ball. Has initial control

2. Receiver has one hand on the ball. Does not have control. The receiver's other hand is away from his body.

3. Both players and the ball hit the ground.

4. Receiver has the ball.


That is how I see the order of events.

So it is either Defenders ball, down by contact OR incomplete.

[anpsteel]

So, I just confirmed


The 3rd down play, the ball carrier crossed the line to gain

The 4th down play was “uncertain”

The dual catch, should have been ruled incomplete.

Will I will PM you