The Steelers suck threads
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
swissvale72 wrote:Sis Boom Bah
you said it
its kind of silly for people to bitch about shit that hasn't even happened yet
I'll go with fury's # 2 reason as well. I have no confidence in their game planning. D (Tomlin's game management) and B (level of skill throughout the team) are neck and neck though for the title, but have been beaten by "no Confidence" by the hair of a horses nose!
-
W&M_Steeler
- Posts: 1838
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 am
B.
I just don't think that the Steelers teams of the last few years are as talented they were ten years ago.
During the period of roughly 1998-2005, the Steelers did an exceptional job of bringing in talented players through both the draft and free agency and retaining them with shrewd contracts. Though there were some misses (Troy Edwards, Alonzo Jackson), the Steelers regularly hit on high rounds picks (Faneca, Marvel Smith, Hampton. Troy, Ben, Miller), found gems in lower rounds (including Hines Ward, Joey Porter, Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor) who they were able to retain with reasonable contracts, signed under the radar free agents who came in and immediately improved the team (Kimo von Oelhoffen, James Farrior, Jeff Hartings), and found some incredible UDFAs (James Harrison, Willie Parker). On top of that, the Steelers filled out the rest of the starting line-up with good talent (players like Deshea Townsend, Clark Haggans, Chris Hoke, and others). The period of 1998-2003 was basically a rebuilding period (with 2001 and 02 providing glimpses of what this team could develop into), and, during this time, the majority of changes to the starting line-up marked an increase in talent at the position. This created the Steelers' window of opportunity from 2004 - 2010.
Starting in about 2006, the Steelers' luck started to turn in the personnel department. At first it wasn't really noticeable. In 2006, the Steelers signed Ryan Clark, and the 2006 and 2007 drafts produced Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley. However, those drafts didn't produce the mid to late round gems. 2006 gave us Willie Colon, 2007 Matt Spaeth and William Gay. Other than that, we got nothing. It didn't matter much at the time, because Clark, Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley were great additions and the most of the 1998-2005 group was still contributing.
The personnel has been declining ever since. The 1998-2005 group has almost entirely aged out, and of those still around only Ben seems to be near the level he was during the peak. The free agents haven't been as impactful- who's the best FA signing for the Steelers since Ryan Clark? Jerrico Cotchery? The top draft picks haven't been as successful. On top of that, the FO has made some bad contract moves compounding these problems. Timmons and Woodley were overpaid, not to mention people like Willie Colon and Chris Kemoeatu. With the notable exception of Antonio Brown, we haven't been able to retain the gems we did find in the mid-rounds (Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis) due in part to the FO's contract mistakes.
In a real sense, the Steelers have been rebuilding since 2010 (and have been rebuilding the O-line since about 2007), but most of the new starters are worse than the long time starters they replaced. How many 2014 starters would have started for the 2005 Steelers? Antonio Brown would have certainly started over El or Wilson. Likely DeCastro over Kendall Simmons. Maybe Le'Veon Bell would start over Parker and Timmons over Foote. Would you take 2014 Ben over 2005 Ben? Probably, but it would take some thought. That leaves us with 5 positions out of 22 that have been adequately rebuilt. The numbers are similar if you compare the 2008 and 2014 rosters.
The LB corps provides a good example of the Steelers' problems. In 2005 we had a group of starting LBs who were modest free agent signings or mid-round picks. Same with 2008, with Woodley being the highest drafted starter. In 2014, we have a LB Corps of 3 first rounders and a second rounder, and it's unquestionably worse than the 2005 or 2008 groups. Maybe Shazier and Jervis will pan out and live up to their draft billing, and maybe the Steelers can re-sign Worilds to a reasonable contract (assuming that Worilds' has a successful 2014), but that's a lot of uncertainty and risk given then amount of money and high draft picks invested in the LBs over the past few years. Every resource invested in rebuilding the LB corps (and overcoming Woodley's fall) is a resource that can't be used to improve other aspects of the team. If the LB rebuilding project is a failure, then this team will be screwed.
I don't know who is to blame for the decline in talent- did Colbert and Kahn lose their mojo? Is Tomlin the problem? Is it just a natural return to the mean? But to my untrained eye, it looks like the Steelers have gone off the rails in the personnel department.
I just don't think that the Steelers teams of the last few years are as talented they were ten years ago.
During the period of roughly 1998-2005, the Steelers did an exceptional job of bringing in talented players through both the draft and free agency and retaining them with shrewd contracts. Though there were some misses (Troy Edwards, Alonzo Jackson), the Steelers regularly hit on high rounds picks (Faneca, Marvel Smith, Hampton. Troy, Ben, Miller), found gems in lower rounds (including Hines Ward, Joey Porter, Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor) who they were able to retain with reasonable contracts, signed under the radar free agents who came in and immediately improved the team (Kimo von Oelhoffen, James Farrior, Jeff Hartings), and found some incredible UDFAs (James Harrison, Willie Parker). On top of that, the Steelers filled out the rest of the starting line-up with good talent (players like Deshea Townsend, Clark Haggans, Chris Hoke, and others). The period of 1998-2003 was basically a rebuilding period (with 2001 and 02 providing glimpses of what this team could develop into), and, during this time, the majority of changes to the starting line-up marked an increase in talent at the position. This created the Steelers' window of opportunity from 2004 - 2010.
Starting in about 2006, the Steelers' luck started to turn in the personnel department. At first it wasn't really noticeable. In 2006, the Steelers signed Ryan Clark, and the 2006 and 2007 drafts produced Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley. However, those drafts didn't produce the mid to late round gems. 2006 gave us Willie Colon, 2007 Matt Spaeth and William Gay. Other than that, we got nothing. It didn't matter much at the time, because Clark, Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley were great additions and the most of the 1998-2005 group was still contributing.
The personnel has been declining ever since. The 1998-2005 group has almost entirely aged out, and of those still around only Ben seems to be near the level he was during the peak. The free agents haven't been as impactful- who's the best FA signing for the Steelers since Ryan Clark? Jerrico Cotchery? The top draft picks haven't been as successful. On top of that, the FO has made some bad contract moves compounding these problems. Timmons and Woodley were overpaid, not to mention people like Willie Colon and Chris Kemoeatu. With the notable exception of Antonio Brown, we haven't been able to retain the gems we did find in the mid-rounds (Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis) due in part to the FO's contract mistakes.
In a real sense, the Steelers have been rebuilding since 2010 (and have been rebuilding the O-line since about 2007), but most of the new starters are worse than the long time starters they replaced. How many 2014 starters would have started for the 2005 Steelers? Antonio Brown would have certainly started over El or Wilson. Likely DeCastro over Kendall Simmons. Maybe Le'Veon Bell would start over Parker and Timmons over Foote. Would you take 2014 Ben over 2005 Ben? Probably, but it would take some thought. That leaves us with 5 positions out of 22 that have been adequately rebuilt. The numbers are similar if you compare the 2008 and 2014 rosters.
The LB corps provides a good example of the Steelers' problems. In 2005 we had a group of starting LBs who were modest free agent signings or mid-round picks. Same with 2008, with Woodley being the highest drafted starter. In 2014, we have a LB Corps of 3 first rounders and a second rounder, and it's unquestionably worse than the 2005 or 2008 groups. Maybe Shazier and Jervis will pan out and live up to their draft billing, and maybe the Steelers can re-sign Worilds to a reasonable contract (assuming that Worilds' has a successful 2014), but that's a lot of uncertainty and risk given then amount of money and high draft picks invested in the LBs over the past few years. Every resource invested in rebuilding the LB corps (and overcoming Woodley's fall) is a resource that can't be used to improve other aspects of the team. If the LB rebuilding project is a failure, then this team will be screwed.
I don't know who is to blame for the decline in talent- did Colbert and Kahn lose their mojo? Is Tomlin the problem? Is it just a natural return to the mean? But to my untrained eye, it looks like the Steelers have gone off the rails in the personnel department.
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
WE RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE BAYBAY!!!!
-
Orangesteel
- Posts: 13432
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:23 pm
5 star post, W&M
“Thoughts are a waste of time for me.” - Michael Pettaway Tomlin
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
W&M_Steeler wrote:B.
I just don't think that the Steelers teams of the last few years are as talented they were ten years ago.
During the period of roughly 1998-2005, the Steelers did an exceptional job of bringing in talented players through both the draft and free agency and retaining them with shrewd contracts. Though there were some misses (Troy Edwards, Alonzo Jackson), the Steelers regularly hit on high rounds picks (Faneca, Marvel Smith, Hampton. Troy, Ben, Miller), found gems in lower rounds (including Hines Ward, Joey Porter, Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor) who they were able to retain with reasonable contracts, signed under the radar free agents who came in and immediately improved the team (Kimo von Oelhoffen, James Farrior, Jeff Hartings), and found some incredible UDFAs (James Harrison, Willie Parker). On top of that, the Steelers filled out the rest of the starting line-up with good talent (players like Deshea Townsend, Clark Haggans, Chris Hoke, and others). The period of 1998-2003 was basically a rebuilding period (with 2001 and 02 providing glimpses of what this team could develop into), and, during this time, the majority of changes to the starting line-up marked an increase in talent at the position. This created the Steelers' window of opportunity from 2004 - 2010.
Starting in about 2006, the Steelers' luck started to turn in the personnel department. At first it wasn't really noticeable. In 2006, the Steelers signed Ryan Clark, and the 2006 and 2007 drafts produced Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley. However, those drafts didn't produce the mid to late round gems. 2006 gave us Willie Colon, 2007 Matt Spaeth and William Gay. Other than that, we got nothing. It didn't matter much at the time, because Clark, Holmes, Timmons, and Woodley were great additions and the most of the 1998-2005 group was still contributing.
The personnel has been declining ever since. The 1998-2005 group has almost entirely aged out, and of those still around only Ben seems to be near the level he was during the peak. The free agents haven't been as impactful- who's the best FA signing for the Steelers since Ryan Clark? Jerrico Cotchery? The top draft picks haven't been as successful. On top of that, the FO has made some bad contract moves compounding these problems. Timmons and Woodley were overpaid, not to mention people like Willie Colon and Chris Kemoeatu. With the notable exception of Antonio Brown, we haven't been able to retain the gems we did find in the mid-rounds (Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis) due in part to the FO's contract mistakes.
In a real sense, the Steelers have been rebuilding since 2010 (and have been rebuilding the O-line since about 2007), but most of the new starters are worse than the long time starters they replaced. How many 2014 starters would have started for the 2005 Steelers? Antonio Brown would have certainly started over El or Wilson. Likely DeCastro over Kendall Simmons. Maybe Le'Veon Bell would start over Parker and Timmons over Foote. Would you take 2014 Ben over 2005 Ben? Probably, but it would take some thought. That leaves us with 5 positions out of 22 that have been adequately rebuilt. The numbers are similar if you compare the 2008 and 2014 rosters.
The LB corps provides a good example of the Steelers' problems. In 2005 we had a group of starting LBs who were modest free agent signings or mid-round picks. Same with 2008, with Woodley being the highest drafted starter. In 2014, we have a LB Corps of 3 first rounders and a second rounder, and it's unquestionably worse than the 2005 or 2008 groups. Maybe Shazier and Jervis will pan out and live up to their draft billing, and maybe the Steelers can re-sign Worilds to a reasonable contract (assuming that Worilds' has a successful 2014), but that's a lot of uncertainty and risk given then amount of money and high draft picks invested in the LBs over the past few years. Every resource invested in rebuilding the LB corps (and overcoming Woodley's fall) is a resource that can't be used to improve other aspects of the team. If the LB rebuilding project is a failure, then this team will be screwed.
I don't know who is to blame for the decline in talent- did Colbert and Kahn lose their mojo? Is Tomlin the problem? Is it just a natural return to the mean? But to my untrained eye, it looks like the Steelers have gone off the rails in the personnel department.
tl;dr
We ride. That is all!
-
BethlehemSteel
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:39 pm
- Location: IGZF'S
D but B is a concern
Good coaches get more out of B
Good coaches get more out of B
“We Do Not Care”........"I expect guys to make routine plays routinely"
-
bradshaw2ben
- Site Admin
- Posts: 30384
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Maybe Le'Veon Bell would start over Parker
um, no freakin way
I think our coaches get a lot out of our talent at times.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin
-
Steel Mike
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:34 pm
Iron_City wrote:This one's easyH) None, we're the F'ing steelers and we ride
Twitter: @MikeDForThree
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
I have no beef yet.
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
-
swissvale72
- Posts: 2952
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:43 am
BarryFoster wrote:I have no beef yet.
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
Right. I think we could use a little more WE RIDE, in great big letters, multiple exclamation points.....2014 Steelers....best team ever, nary a weakness, Browns needn't bother showing up.
Who said Steelers don't have cheerleaders.
-
Orangesteel
- Posts: 13432
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:23 pm
All I'm saying is if this team cannot get the f$&@ up for a season opener home game against the Browns, then, well, I just won't know what to think. Week 1 and this is an EXTREMELY important game already.
“Thoughts are a waste of time for me.” - Michael Pettaway Tomlin
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
swissvale72 wrote:BarryFoster wrote:I have no beef yet.
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
Right. I think we could use a little more WE RIDE, in great big letters, multiple exclamation points.....2014 Steelers....best team ever, nary a weakness, Browns needn't bother showing up.
Who said Steelers don't have cheerleaders.
Maybe if you just tell me one of your long-winded stories it would bore the optimism out of me and then I could complain about things that haven't even happened yet like you seem to want me to
I consider myself a Steeler fan not Steeler antagonist. I realize they have flaws but not to the extent I need to get pissed off before the season even starts
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
collector423 wrote:I. I'm still waiting for Tomlin since 2009 to put some beef behind his, 'We will unleash hell here in December'
(i.e. I think he is a big mouth fool).
Going to the Super Bowl the next year didn't do it for you?
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
Lifelongsteel wrote:With all of the complaining going on, i wanted to survey the board to understand the #1 complaint. Your choices:
A) Ben doesn't have enough weapons
B) Overall talent level not good enough
C) Those cheap ass Rooney's
D) Tomlin game management
E) Offense too conservative
F) LeBeau doesn't play young players
G) Steelers "easing in to" games, seasons, etc.
H) None, we're the F'ing steelers and we ride
I) Other - Write in
Sorry but you can only pick one
I'm going with D - Tomlin game management.
What's your beef?
My biggest complaint is other fans with bitches. Christ, you don't even know what you have for 4 games, really. Maybe not even then. 2005 was an ugly ride. Don't think anyone thought we were going to win it all in 2008 at the outset of the season, either.
WAAAAAAH! Gary Russell. WAAAAAH!! Arians uses the shitgun too much. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
-
swissvale72
- Posts: 2952
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:43 am
Iron_City wrote:swissvale72 wrote:BarryFoster wrote:I have no beef yet.
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
Right. I think we could use a little more WE RIDE, in great big letters, multiple exclamation points.....2014 Steelers....best team ever, nary a weakness, Browns needn't bother showing up.
Who said Steelers don't have cheerleaders.
Maybe if you just tell me one of your long-winded stories it would bore the optimism out of me and then I could complain about things that haven't even happened yet like you seem to want me to
I consider myself a Steeler fan not Steeler antagonist. I realize they have flaws but not to the extent I need to get pissed off before the season even starts
How's this for a long-winded story:
To The Dullard Iron City...
Fuck You
The End
-
Stillerz Bar
- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:33 pm
BarryFoster wrote:I have no beef yet.
It's preseason. Some shit bothers me, makes me apprehensive regrading our chances....
But it's not even the regular season and people are spewing negativty.
So right now I am an optimistic fan hoping for a good season.
Ask me in a couplw weeks....
This is where I am... right now I am nervous but ready to roll. Effectively for that start of the season that puts me with Mean Joe too
H) None, we're the F'ing steelers and we ride
Interesting topic... Why no "all of the above"? 
-
Greenwood13x
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:32 pm
Mark me down as H, sir. Have to saddle up and cut the bullshit. The battles draw near and we fight with what we've got, not what we wish we had. I ride.
Steeler Jones wrote:Lifelongsteel wrote:With all of the complaining going on, i wanted to survey the board to understand the #1 complaint. Your choices:
A) Ben doesn't have enough weapons
B) Overall talent level not good enough
C) Those cheap ass Rooney's
D) Tomlin game management
E) Offense too conservative
F) LeBeau doesn't play young players
G) Steelers "easing in to" games, seasons, etc.
H) None, we're the F'ing steelers and we ride
I) Other - Write in
Sorry but you can only pick one
I'm going with D - Tomlin game management.
What's your beef?
My biggest complaint is other fans with bitches. Christ, you don't even know what you have for 4 games, really. Maybe not even then. 2005 was an ugly ride. Don't think anyone thought we were going to win it all in 2008 at the outset of the season, either.
WAAAAAAH! Gary Russell. WAAAAAH!! Arians uses the shitgun too much. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
Although I agree with Jones and you whiny bitches can make this site a tough read at times....
I fucking ride!!!
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
cmack15 wrote:Although I agree with Jones and you whiny bitches can make this site a tough read at times....
Ummkay...WE RIDE!!!!!
Ya know...I never seen this movie...but I have heard about this scene...and yinz made me think of it so much it was worth me checking out-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VKKzC2GkU[/youtube]
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
swissvale72 wrote:[
How's this for a long-winded story:
To The Dullard Iron City...
Fuck You
The End
If you stop starting shit with me you won't feel the need to have to finish it
I don't get caught up in NFL drama like you do. Peter King, Roger Goodel, when to call timeouts. You yourself were optimistic last season when most thought the season was lost. And now you have to shit on me for showing the same optimism. So fuck you too hypocrite
-
swissvale72
- Posts: 2952
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:43 am
Iron_City wrote:swissvale72 wrote:[
How's this for a long-winded story:
To The Dullard Iron City...
Fuck You
The End
If you stop starting shit with me you won't feel the need to have to finish it
I don't get caught up in NFL drama like you do. Peter King, Roger Goodel, when to call timeouts. You yourself were optimistic last season when most thought the season was lost. And now you have to shit on me for showing the same optimism. So fuck you too hypocrite
Hey ShitforBrains; I didn't start any shit with you. I'm not troubled by optimism. It's the accompanying histrionics, none of which you engage in by the way, that I'm finding a tad annoying. So if you thought my commentary was somehow aimed at you, guess what, it wasn't...not in the least.
NFL drama? The coach in charge of the operation, and his pronounced weaknesses in game management, you label as drama? Roger Goodell, and presiding over points of emphasis that are changing the very nature of the game...again you see as drama?? No....they're just topics that aren't in the Table of Contents of your Coaching101 handbooks, so you're lost when those items are raised.
-
Legacy User
- Posts: 288947
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am
My biggest beef is also, all the whining and negativity that permeates this board. IC I respect your opinions, you seem to be knowledgeable about the game and make good assesments, I dont always agree, but its great to see the optomism and the reasoningfor the upcoming season
I tried
To just shut up and ride
I tried
In the Steeler score thread to write down 52-7
I tried
Because we have Number 7
It's opening Day at Home against the Stains
It's Chuck Noll Day for gods sake - the greatest ever
If chuck coached the team I would have wrote down 52-7.
In most years past, I really would have thought they would pund holy shit out of the browns. A physical beating.
I will still ride and drink and scream all day Sunday.
And hope
But I just don't trust this group - especially the coaches.
Until they don't for an extended period I just expect to see MT, TH and DL trot out the same old same old ease it in versus division rival, hang in, keep,it close, win it in the end. Which will look possible until they do something insanely odd or dumb.
Maybe I am just steeling myself now for a season of feeling ill all the time
. Hell I am getting nervous no just thinking about Sunday
To just shut up and ride
I tried
In the Steeler score thread to write down 52-7
I tried
Because we have Number 7
It's opening Day at Home against the Stains
It's Chuck Noll Day for gods sake - the greatest ever
If chuck coached the team I would have wrote down 52-7.
In most years past, I really would have thought they would pund holy shit out of the browns. A physical beating.
I will still ride and drink and scream all day Sunday.
And hope
But I just don't trust this group - especially the coaches.
Until they don't for an extended period I just expect to see MT, TH and DL trot out the same old same old ease it in versus division rival, hang in, keep,it close, win it in the end. Which will look possible until they do something insanely odd or dumb.
Maybe I am just steeling myself now for a season of feeling ill all the time
. Hell I am getting nervous no just thinking about Sunday-
USS Steelerworks
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:21 pm
I am going to go with "I - Write in". My beef is that we haven't played a single game yet and fans are complaining about something.
I won't have any complaints about this team or the makeup of it until after Week 1 when there is an actual performance worth critiquing.
I won't have any complaints about this team or the makeup of it until after Week 1 when there is an actual performance worth critiquing.
Lifelongsteel wrote:E) Offense too conservative
Always this! Especially, get to the RZ, and usually immediately go run-run and get stuck with 3rd and long! hate that shit.
The off and pre seasons are for bitching. I'm H all the way unless their play in the REAL season warrants otherwise. Right now we're tied for first baby. As The Chin would say "Let's GO!". Time to put some Harrisonesk hurt on those Brown's QBs!! Yeah that's plural because they'll need more than one to get through this game.
Howard Griffith had to resort to chop-blocking him during the 1997 AFC Championship Game. An incredulous Kirkland asked Griffith, “Why do you have to use cheap tactics like chop-blocking?” Griffith replied “Why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?”
