Not a singular point scored, obviously.

[Mick]

It was the fourth preseason game for chrissakes it's the game or the bottom 35 guys on the roster still left compete for the last 13 spots no big deal

As was pointed out, our three rivals were playing their fourth stringers last night too, and they all scored in the 20s and 30s.

And our first team got shut out last week as well...by first AND second string opposition. Not until third stringers for the Iggles started mixing in could the first team score.

Cleveland was going with Hoyer and Manziel. 4th and 5th string, I assume? Cinci had Jason Campbell, a legit nfl backup qb.

this is not to dispute the obvious: our depth on offense is terribad. we have like 5.5 olineman that should ever be on a field (Wallace counting as a 1, beachum as 0.5 NFL LTs), 1 receiving TE, 2 QBs, 2 rbs (3 counting archer).

take those guys off the field, and there's just absolutely nothing.

At the same time, our defensive depth guys had a pretty damn good preseason. gave up the late TD against the gints, the 16 yard TD drive against buffalo, and then nothingish the last two weeks. not much for 8 or 9 quarters of play.

[Legacy User]

the Haley problem isn't anything new -- its just more of the same shit

our offense will fucking suck until he's gone

[Legacy User]

It was the fourth preseason game for chrissakes it's the game or the bottom 35 guys on the roster still left compete for the last 13 spots no big deal

As was pointed out, our three rivals were playing their fourth stringers last night too, and they all scored in the 20s and 30s.

And our first team got shut out last week as well...by first AND second string opposition. Not until third stringers for the Iggles started mixing in could the first team score.

So tell me genius what conclusions have you drawn from this?

[jeemie]

It was the fourth preseason game for chrissakes it's the game or the bottom 35 guys on the roster still left compete for the last 13 spots no big deal

As was pointed out, our three rivals were playing their fourth stringers last night too, and they all scored in the 20s and 30s.

And our first team got shut out last week as well...by first AND second string opposition. Not until third stringers for the Iggles started mixing in could the first team score.

So tell me genius what conclusions have you drawn from this?

That the Steelers are very likely to struggle mightily this year.

How about you tell US what bright spot you saw this preseason that gives you any hope that this is a playoff caliber team?

[Legacy User]

It was the fourth preseason game for chrissakes it's the game or the bottom 35 guys on the roster still left compete for the last 13 spots no big deal

As was pointed out, our three rivals were playing their fourth stringers last night too, and they all scored in the 20s and 30s.

And our first team got shut out last week as well...by first AND second string opposition. Not until third stringers for the Iggles started mixing in could the first team score.

So tell me genius what conclusions have you drawn from this?

Can I take a stab at this?

My guess would be that the backups from the 3 other AFCN teams, last night, were more productive than our backups.

Let me know how I did.

[Legacy User]

In fairness, any team that has to field third and fourth stringers is fucked so who cares how many points the scrubs scored.

The Iggles performance is more troubling than last night.

[Legacy User]

It was the fourth preseason game for chrissakes it's the game or the bottom 35 guys on the roster still left compete for the last 13 spots no big deal

As was pointed out, our three rivals were playing their fourth stringers last night too, and they all scored in the 20s and 30s.

And our first team got shut out last week as well...by first AND second string opposition. Not until third stringers for the Iggles started mixing in could the first team score.

So tell me genius what conclusions have you drawn from this?

That we're more likely to be 8-8 than 12-4.

[Legacy User]

Can I take a stab at this?

My guess would be that the backups from the 3 other AFCN teams, last night, were more productive than our backups.

Let me know how I did.

Quality post, Barry.

OR

The scrubs the other AFCN scrubs played against were way scrubbier than the scrubs our scrubs played against.

[Kodiak]

Are people really trying to draw insights by comparing scores....of back-ups....in PRESEASON!!?!?!?!?

[Legacy User]

Can I take a stab at this?

My guess would be that the backups from the 3 other AFCN teams, last night, were more productive than our backups.

Let me know how I did.

Quality post, Barry.

OR

The scrubs the other AFCN scrubs played against were way scrubbier than the scrubs our scrubs played against.

Excellent. Guess we have to give credit where credit is due. The Carolina scrubs/hamburger flippers/Walmart greeters/Eat n' Park busboys/McDonald's drive thru managers.....they were damn good. I'm happy that we were able to cross mid field once.

*cums and holding head higher than before

[Mick]

In fairness, any team that has to field third and fourth stringers is fucked so who cares how many points the scrubs scored.

The Iggles performance is more troubling than last night.

I'm concerned by the FO's inability to brind in any late round/udfa skill position guy who is even remotely capable of making a play. Oline as well.

Preseason used to be fun, with our scrub 8th string rbs running over 7th string lbs etc. These guys look like they are just going through the motions.

[Legacy User]

Are people really trying to draw insights by comparing scores....of back-ups....in PRESEASON!!?!?!?!?

Yes. Don't be shy...take a stab at it. I just came after realizing the Carolina scrubs on D were very good.

[lifelongsteel]

In fairness, any team that has to field third and fourth stringers is fucked so who cares how many points the scrubs scored.

The Iggles performance is more troubling than last night.

I'm concerned by the FO's inability to brind in any late round/udfa skill position guy who is even remotely capable of making a play. Oline as well.

Preseason used to be fun, with our scrub 8th string rbs running over 7th string lbs etc. These guys look like they are just going through the motions.

How often should we be able to strike this type of gold? Seems like between Fast Willie and AB we've had more than our fair share of UDFA/late round playmakers

[Mick]

In fairness, any team that has to field third and fourth stringers is fucked so who cares how many points the scrubs scored.

The Iggles performance is more troubling than last night.

I'm concerned by the FO's inability to brind in any late round/udfa skill position guy who is even remotely capable of making a play. Oline as well.

Preseason used to be fun, with our scrub 8th string rbs running over 7th string lbs etc. These guys look like they are just going through the motions.

How often should we be able to strike this type of gold? Seems like between Fast Willie and AB we've had more than our fair share of UDFA/late round playmakers

I'm not talking about guys who are going to probowl, I'm talking about guys who at least look like they're trying to make a team. Redman or nate washington. FUuuuuuu! Will johnson was the most dynamic playmaker we had out there after wheaton got pulled.

Look around the league, almost every team has 1 or 2 preseason superstars. Who is the biggest offensive playmaker we've had that isn't a veteran or roster lock?

[Nick79]

Are people really trying to draw insights by comparing scores....of back-ups....in PRESEASON!!?!?!?!?

Why not, it's about an attitude, an attitude that scoring is important- ABOVE ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS - no matter who's in there, what where the Steelers scores in preseason? 13-19-21-0 ? I don't care if the cheeleaders played, SCORING MATTERS, we'd get ZERO for cheerleaders too!

[Legacy User]

They say preseason doesn't matter, singularly. Well we've lost 7 out of our last 8 preseason games and each of the last two playoff-less seasons we've come of the gate like an inbred three-legged mule, obviously. Finishing the season "strong" is a nice sentiment but to make the playoffs you can't afford to "ease into the season" with 4 or 5 losses, if you will.

[Legacy User]

They say preseason doesn't matter, singularly. Well we've lost 7 out of our last 8 preseason games and each of the last two playoff-less seasons we've come of the gate like an inbred three-legged mule, obviously. Finishing the season "strong" is a nice sentiment but to make the playoffs you can't afford to "ease into the season" with 4 or 5 losses, if you will.

bottom line is, yes, preseason matters -- for lots of reasons

1. figure out who will make the roster (pretty fucking important reason why it matters)
2. prepare for opening game of the regular season (summer practices aren't really enough -- need to have games to do this -- or live scrimmages, which is what preseason games are like)
3. gives the coaches a sense for where the team is and where it needs to improve (not our coaches, since they're fucking idiots)
4. assess and improve SPECIAL TEAMS (most teams do this in preseason -- not the steelers)

there are many other important reasons why preseason matters -- and if our preseason last year was any indication of how our reg season would go, then i'm not feeling very good about this season

thankfully, we open with the shitstain browns -- at home. we should win that game, even with all of our fucked up problems

[Legacy User]

In fairness, any team that has to field third and fourth stringers is fucked so who cares how many points the scrubs scored.

The Iggles performance is more troubling than last night.

CORRECT.

our starters got fucking MANHANDLED by the mediocre Eagles -- i mean, fucking DESTROYED

that game, more than any other, is the closest thing you get to a "real" game in the preseason. And our starters got SMOKED -- by the Eagles starters AND by the Eagles backups.

the conclusions I drew:

1. our offense is stale and predictable, just as it has been for 3 years
2. our OL is not very good
3. our WR's are not good outside of AB
4. our Defense will struggle against the run and will struggle against the pass. Basically, our defense isn't very good.
5. Our special tears are putrid -- Punter can't punt -- Suisham can't kick. (maybe b/c the new punter holds for him now)

[Legacy User]

Fretting for 1 second over the 4th Pre-season game is insane. ( Probably assinine )

So I will give you several reasons why not to fret over the eagles game.

1. The Eagles play this "option" offense and Kelly believes practicing it under game conditions is important. The Steelers even in the no huddle do not determine run or pass after the ball is snapped. They did not want to give away anything.

2. The eagles had a lot of their drives sustained by penalties.

3. The Steelers found out that traditional Nickel will get gouged in the run game.

4. Ben was avoiding AB early on purpose because he knows what he has there .

5. Guys like Shazier and Tuitt were "enlightened.

[Obviously]

Are people really trying to draw insights by comparing scores....of back-ups....in PRESEASON!!?!?!?!?

Why not, it's about an attitude, an attitude that scoring is important- ABOVE ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS - no matter who's in there, what where the Steelers scores in preseason? 13-19-21-0 ? I don't care if the cheeleaders played, SCORING MATTERS, we'd get ZERO for cheerleaders too!

Did you say cheerleaders?

[Legacy User]

This game means absolutely nothing and was hardly surprising. Our depth at QB behind the Franchise is terrifying. Our depth elsewhere is also putrid. If anything happens to the man, we are screwed. This is hardly a shock. This team will be as good as its health.

Bring on the real games. I'm not ready to panic yet.

[Joe Steeler Fan]

This game means absolutely nothing and was hardly surprising. Our depth at QB behind the Franchise is terrifying. Our depth elsewhere is also putrid. If anything happens to the man, we are screwed. This is hardly a shock. This team will be as good as its health.

Bring on the real games. I'm not ready to panic yet.

This is kind of where I'm at as well. I realize this team is an incomplete body of work. There are missing pieces a-plenty. They'll be capable of winning a few games, but it will all hinge on their ability to keep the first team healthy and on the field.

The sad part of this whole thing is knowing Ben is in the final home stretch of his career. Had we drafted better over the past 5 years, even drafted ok .... Ben could be enjoying a re-stocked team right now and competing for a few new rings.

Missing on nearly EVERYBODY in 2008 and 2009 then again in 2012 drafts hurt this franchise more than most are willing to admit. This roster should be riddled with depth right now ... when you look below, you'll see why it's not.

2012
1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon

2009
1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State

2008
1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia

[Kodiak]

I actually kind of like Gradkowski. I think he's a pretty decent back-up. Not the best, but far from the worst. 3rd string...I don't think any team in the NFL is winning games with their 3rd string QB.

We were spoiled with Batch and Leftwich. Those guys were borderline starters, and would have been if younger. And I think guys like that (and Gradkowski) are always out there, which is why I would NEVER draft a developmental back-up QB. I think GM's do that hoping to find another Tom Brady in R6...just a waste of a pick when you have a franchise QB and a decent back-up.

[stillcajun]

What we saw over the last two weeks is the yin/yang which is the Pittsburgh Steelers O. On O, it has been proven over the last few years that Haleyball is an abject failure here. Our success on O has been mainly through the use of the no-huddle. Basically as Ben goes so goes the Steelers. With the no huddle, Ben sees the field and calls the plays w/ audibles and sets the team up for success. The downfall behind this is like the other night. When Ben is off, nothing can save this O and I mean nothing. A good OC would be able to rein things in and reset the O so that it can then start doing things successfully. Which brings us to Haley...

Haley is the yang. He never seems to call plays that seek to exploit a defensive weakness. A team sucks defending the pass, no worries, he'll continually call plays that will run up the middle and vice versa. It's like he's out to just fill in check boxes. I called this many runs, check. I called this many passes, check.

Last year was a good example, the O didn't take off last year until they started to run it through Ben using the no-huddle. A lot of people here thought that Haley was out the door around mid-season because the O was so abysmal.

The past two weeks we saw in full effect what you get when Haley calls the plays. The team is never in a position to win,succeed, or establish the LOS on any consistent basis. 1st down run. 2nd down -run. 3rd and long-screen, hitch, slant route short of the 1st down marker or the patented draw play so as not to lose field position instead of exploiting a weakness. Play action- pretty much gone because in running formations we're gonna run (mainly up the middle) til the cows come home. Intermediate routes-pretty much non-existent because we must always use the smokescreen (you know because it's high percentage and like an extended handoff)

Do I think the O is missing some talent? Yes but a good OC knows how to protect his players and put them in position to succeed. Haley doesn't do this and it has been proven time and time again.

[Legacy User]

This game means absolutely nothing and was hardly surprising. Our depth at QB behind the Franchise is terrifying. Our depth elsewhere is also putrid. If anything happens to the man, we are screwed. This is hardly a shock. This team will be as good as its health.

Bring on the real games. I'm not ready to panic yet.

This is kind of where I'm at as well. I realize this team is an incomplete body of work. There are missing pieces a-plenty. They'll be capable of winning a few games, but it will all hinge on their ability to keep the first team healthy and on the field.

The sad part of this whole thing is knowing Ben is in the final home stretch of his career. Had we drafted better over the past 5 years, even drafted ok .... Ben could be enjoying a re-stocked team right now and competing for a few new rings.

Missing on nearly EVERYBODY in 2008 and 2009 then again in 2012 drafts hurt this franchise more than most are willing to admit. This roster should be riddled with depth right now ... when you look below, you'll see why it's not.

2012
1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon

2009
1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State

2008
1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia

the '08 draft was fucking horrible --
but the '09 draft is actually pretty good --

Hood
Wallace
Lewis
Urbik

that's 4 NFL starters right there, 2 of whom make $10M/ year

[Legacy User]

This game means absolutely nothing and was hardly surprising. Our depth at QB behind the Franchise is terrifying. Our depth elsewhere is also putrid. If anything happens to the man, we are screwed. This is hardly a shock. This team will be as good as its health.

Bring on the real games. I'm not ready to panic yet.

This is kind of where I'm at as well. I realize this team is an incomplete body of work. There are missing pieces a-plenty. They'll be capable of winning a few games, but it will all hinge on their ability to keep the first team healthy and on the field.

The sad part of this whole thing is knowing Ben is in the final home stretch of his career. Had we drafted better over the past 5 years, even drafted ok .... Ben could be enjoying a re-stocked team right now and competing for a few new rings.

Missing on nearly EVERYBODY in 2008 and 2009 then again in 2012 drafts hurt this franchise more than most are willing to admit. This roster should be riddled with depth right now ... when you look below, you'll see why it's not.

2012
1 1 24 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2 2 24 56 Mike Adams T Ohio State
3 3 23 86 Sean Spence LB Miami (FL)
4 4 14 109 Alameda Ta'amu DT Washington
5 5 24 159 Chris Rainey RB Florida
6 7 24 231 Toney Clemons WR Colorado
7 7 33 240 David Paulson TE Oregon

2009
1 1 32 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri
2 3 15 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin
3 3 20 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi
4 3 32 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State
5 5 32 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida
6 5 33 169 Frank Summers RB UNLV
7 6 32 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon
8 7 17 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
9 7 32 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State

2008
1 1 23 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2 2 22 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas
3 3 25 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA
4 4 31 130 Tony Hills T Texas
5 5 21 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon
6 6 22 188 Mike Humpal LB Iowa
7 6 28 194 Ryan Mundy DB West Virginia

holy shit 2008 was bad. Mendenhall was decent but he never has a passion for football, evidenced by the fact that he retired at age 25 with plenty of tread left on the tires. 2009 wasn't all that bad...the top 4 picks are all starters in the NFL...not sure why we let Urbik go.

2012 is turning out pretty bad. DeCastro has yet to prove he's above average...Adams is now officially a bust. Spence could have been good, but has just been snakebit. Rest of the roster is garbage.

[Legacy User]

Haley is the yang.

Haley is the wang.

Based on how Ben does when he calls the plays, he seems to design plays well enough. But he also seems like the kind of guy you'd love to play poker with. You'd win so much money...

[stillcajun]

Haley is the yang.

Haley is the wang.

nice.

[Kodiak]

Based on how Ben does when he calls the plays, he seems to design plays well enough. But he also seems like the kind of guy you'd love to play poker with. You'd win so much money...

Pretty much exactly what people said about Arians.

I've come to the conclusion that Ben IS the rare talent most of us realize him to be...The other 10 guys around him, as a group, have not been very good....which makes it tough on an OC. Take Ben out of the equation and we're talking '96 Steelers without Bettis and a good running game.

An offensive genius might help, but there just aren't very many of those. The talent around Ben has never been close to top-tier, and it's slid a long ways to the point where it's bottom quartile currently.

Big Ben is tracking Elway in many respects....Years after he retires, people will ask you to name someone else good that Ben played with...You'll get Hines Ward, Bettis (who shouldn't count)....and hopefully AB.

[Legacy User]

I actually kind of like Gradkowski. I think he's a pretty decent back-up. Not the best, but far from the worst. 3rd string...I don't think any team in the NFL is winning games with their 3rd string QB.

We were spoiled with Batch and Leftwich. Those guys were borderline starters, and would have been if younger. And I think guys like that (and Gradkowski) are always out there, which is why I would NEVER draft a developmental back-up QB. I think GM's do that hoping to find another Tom Brady in R6...just a waste of a pick when you have a franchise QB and a decent back-up.

I actually agree with this 100%