Who are our current "model Steelers"

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Steelafan77
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Re: Who are our current "model Steelers"

Post by Steelafan77 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:Kelvin Beachum
Ramon Foster
Heath Miller
Lawrence Timmons
Cortez Allen
Greg Warren
Steve McLendon
Shaun Suisham
Bruce Gradkowski
Will Allen
Matt Spaeth
Darrius Heyward-Bey

there's one guy for sure-- maybe as many as 3 guys on this list who would be anywhere significant above the value of a replacement player

I listed them because they quietly go about their business working hard like nothing is owed to them. Like they may not make the roster ever again.

They contribute to greater causes then themselves by giving back to their home town and the Pittsburgh area communities. They stay private off the field. Good role models IMO.



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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:38 pm

YPG is a bullshit stat YPA is much more representative. Add in sacks and turnovers-- now you're talking.

Steelers were top 5 at 6.3 YPA in both 2004 and 2005

They were #1 in 2008 at 5.4. A whole yard per attempt is extremely significant.
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Post by Mick » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:32 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:YPG is a bullshit stat YPA is much more representative. Add in sacks and turnovers-- now you're talking.

Steelers were top 5 at 6.3 YPA in both 2004 and 2005

They were #1 in 2008 at 5.4. A whole yard per attempt is extremely significant.

Cowher d ranks in ny/a:
2,2,3,3,5,9,9,9,10,11,12,14,16,18,24

Tomlin:
1,1,1,2,2,9,9

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Post by Ice » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:36 pm

Zivco wrote:
Ice wrote:Nick Saban will leave Alabama in a wooden box.


He's been known to quickly change his mind. Another championship...and trust me the small town South gets boring even for miserable old bastards. Even crazier...I can't wait to see what Mahlzahn does this year...big fan of George O'leary as well but all you ageist bastards ain't hearing that. Between Harbaugh, Carrol, Kelly, I'm loking more towards the college ranks.


Nick likes absolute control, and being the best. He has that at Alabama in spades, and never will have it to anywhere near that degree in the NFL.
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Post by Legacy User » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:39 am

Jeemie wrote:
Zivco wrote:
Jeemie wrote:I think he had a whole hell of a lot to do with that performance from 2007-2010.


Details?


We'd never had a top ten defense against pass and run until Tomlin came here- the DBs themselves credit Tomlin with the improvement in the back-end of the pass D.

He paid greater attention to detail and didn't tolerate poor performance (chewing out the o-line in the Ravens' game when they weren't paying attention, whipping Hampton into shape, making the cutup re: rallying to the ball after INTs prior to Super Bowl XLIII are notable examples of this, but the Steelers were much sharper in their play the early part of Tomlin's tenure- not the slop and slather we see on a routine basis).

Had a killer instinct early on- no "easing into games"- no letting up

Was lauded and respected by his team as a great motivator.


I find none of that compelling. I'm the only person at this board that has outlined a change in defensive philosophy and it has come over the past 2 seasons. Every other poster has taken a position this is 100% DL's defense no matter how many package and alignment differences I have demonstrated over the past 2 seasons. I don't think I recall incident in the Ravens game unless it was that minor chewing out following the 3 straight run start to last years Ravens loss, but I do remember Cowher in Porters and Lloyds face as they got to the sidelines after fucking up...a damn sight braver then harassing the soft ass fat boys on the Oline.

But the medias take on the SB pick makes me laugh my ass off with the rally to the ball coaching point being responsible for that TD. The only reason that pick even happened was Deebo called off his blitz on his own...if he listened to the coaching the int never would have happened. Beyond that...a bunch of guys running but not many knowing where the fuck there going...Deebo had to break three or four tackles to score...hell the last 10 yards were all Deebo. It looks cool in slow motion and all...but he didn't pick up many blocks...and if memory serves at least one of them was meaningless.

The playcalling was about the same under Whiz and BA imo.

I don't think he could touch Cowher as a motivator. I don't think he can touch Cowher as a personnel guy. I chalk up his defensive record to the prime and deterioration of Cowher era players. The defensive scheme was much the same until 2012.

I hear what you are saying Ice...but my thinking is the NFL is finally tiring of recycling HCs, not many great coordinators out there...and Carrol and Kelly have been given close to a BB level of control. If Bama wins it all again this year...even if they don't...I think some offers are going to be made...and hell, he listened to Texas which is a bad situation imo.

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Post by jeemie » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:37 am

You may want to watch Harrison's INT return again Zivco...your description of the blocking on the return is...well...very imaginative to say the least.

Beyond that...I didn't doubt for a moment that you wouldn't find anything that praised Tomlin's early years as compelling.

That's your problem, not anyone else's.

But it doesn't matter...on one thing I agree with you. 2010 was an age and an age ago. Tomlin has not been very good since then, and that's all that matters.
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Post by Legacy User » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:06 pm

So the coaches had nothing to do with instilling in Harrison the knowledge of when to break off a blitz and go into coverage?

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Post by jeemie » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:21 pm

Poltargyst wrote:So the coaches had nothing to do with instilling in Harrison the knowledge of when to break off a blitz and go into coverage?


They probably did, but Harrison said he noticed the playcall was eerily similar to one that was run at the goal line in the San Diego game that year (which DID go for a TD), and that's why he broke off his blitz.

But Zivco's description of the blocking on the INT return was...shall I say again..."imaginative"?
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:33 am

Jeemie wrote:You may want to watch Harrison's INT return again Zivco...your description of the blocking on the return is...well...very imaginative to say the least.

Beyond that...I didn't doubt for a moment that you wouldn't find anything that praised Tomlin's early years as compelling.

That's your problem, not anyone else's.

But it doesn't matter...on one thing I agree with you. 2010 was an age and an age ago. Tomlin has not been very good since then, and that's all that matters.

2010 might be an age and an age ago-- 2004/5 is a completely different era of football

In fact, one could argue that the team has struggled since the rules changes directly designed to stop their brand of football.
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Post by jeemie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:41 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:You may want to watch Harrison's INT return again Zivco...your description of the blocking on the return is...well...very imaginative to say the least.

Beyond that...I didn't doubt for a moment that you wouldn't find anything that praised Tomlin's early years as compelling.

That's your problem, not anyone else's.

But it doesn't matter...on one thing I agree with you. 2010 was an age and an age ago. Tomlin has not been very good since then, and that's all that matters.

2010 might be an age and an age ago-- 2004/5 is a completely different era of football

In fact, one could argue that the team has struggled since the rules changes directly designed to stop their brand of football.


That's still their fault for not adapting.

Other teams are playing tough defense under the new rules and thriving.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:34 am

Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Jeemie wrote:You may want to watch Harrison's INT return again Zivco...your description of the blocking on the return is...well...very imaginative to say the least.

Beyond that...I didn't doubt for a moment that you wouldn't find anything that praised Tomlin's early years as compelling.

That's your problem, not anyone else's.

But it doesn't matter...on one thing I agree with you. 2010 was an age and an age ago. Tomlin has not been very good since then, and that's all that matters.

2010 might be an age and an age ago-- 2004/5 is a completely different era of football

In fact, one could argue that the team has struggled since the rules changes directly designed to stop their brand of football.


That's still their fault for not adapting.

Other teams are playing tough defense under the new rules and thriving.

they were stuck with players who fit the old way-- the rules changed midstream/mid contract. They are obviously going after different guys last couple of years. Can't just snap fingers and retool roster.
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Post by Ice » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:12 am

Agree 100%, B2B. Can't replace aging players and tailor the talent to the new rules all in one offseason.
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Post by Legacy User » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:31 am

Jeemie wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:So the coaches had nothing to do with instilling in Harrison the knowledge of when to break off a blitz and go into coverage?


They probably did, but Harrison said he noticed the playcall was eerily similar to one that was run at the goal line in the San Diego game that year (which DID go for a TD), and that's why he broke off his blitz.

But Zivco's description of the blocking on the INT return was...shall I say again..."imaginative"?


Instilling the knowledge? In Deebo? :lol:

Deebo made that decision off package and alignment...the same reason the call was sent in. This wasn't some sort of in real time read...it was fuck you Deebo know better...and he was right.

I'm surprised just how often you buy into Tomlins self serving media bullshit. Watch the play again...if anything Townsend does such a poor job with Warner the play is slowed up to the point of nearly getting stopped from behind. Kiesal gets an insignificant peel back. Woodley makes the single key block...that convoy let three players have a chance at making the tackle in the last 10 yards. It's such a joke...our defense always rallies for blocks after picks. Google any PS pick 6. Bet there are more then a couple with far more impressive blocking then this play. But this one went a long way so the parade is more obvious. And it was in the SB. Fuck Tomlin for trying to steal Deebos thunder...because that motherfucking play was nearly ALL DEEBO.

bradshaw2ben wrote:they were stuck with players who fit the old way-- the rules changed midstream/mid contract. They are obviously going after different guys last couple of years. Can't just snap fingers and retool roster.


Again, I disagree with the premise. Passing is only slightly up since 2010. And 4 out of 5 of last years top 5 defenses are considered the biggest hitting defenses in the NFL at this time. Consider this-

Total fines issued by the NFL have declined by 32 percent from 2009 to 2012 (668 to 451) and also decreased 4.5 percent between 2011 and 2012 (472 to 451). Fines for illegal hits on quarterbacks have declined 46.4 percent since 2009 (114 to 61).

As far as penalties go I've read that the concussion changes have resulted in less then one third of one penalty per game since 2010.

I don't think the new rules have changed player evaluation at all. Might drop a guy like Merriwheather a couple rounds but that's about it. Still have to support the run in the box.

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:58 am

Steel Mike wrote:
Zivco wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:Antonio Brown has a child out of wedlock, Ike Taylor talks funny and I saw Heath Miller jaywalking once. Also, Cam Heyward went to Ohio State when the whole memorabilia for tattoos thing was going on, so he's disqualified as a model Steeler. And Polamalu was talking smack on Brazil's World Cup team, so he's a total jerk.

Tomlin has put this team on a slippery slope of sinful behavior, obviously.


You really don't understand "model Steeler."

Tomlin is half way down the mountain of soft as a motherfucker football.


Games over .500: 30
Super Bowl Appearances: 2
Super Bowl Wins: 1
Conference Championships: 2
Division Championships: 3
Total Record: 71-41
Winning %: .634

That's pretty soft :roll:


So does he have a lifetime contract yet?
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Post by jeemie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:34 pm

Troy Polamalu gave Tomlin the credit for that cut up that rallied the team, Zivco. I guess you think he's a sellout for helping hype the "Tomlin media spin"?

As for the return: Timmons, Deshea, Kiesel, and Woodley all made key blocks. Yeah, Deshea took a bit to get going but in the end threw down Warner to get him out of the play. And Fitzgerald was diverted so far OOB he had no chance to catch up enough to catch Harrison in time. A couple of guys did also catch up at the end, but they only had Clark to pass up and had better angles to do it.

This idea that because not every Cardinal was cleanly blocked the Steelers failed and it was all James?

Like I said...imaginative.

At any rate, like I said, I AGREE with you that it's a what have you done for me lately league, and a Tomlin has failed at that.

But to pretend he was a potted plant that had zip to do with the Steelers' success early in his career is just dumb.
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Post by Legacy User » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:51 pm

Jeemie wrote:Troy Polamalu gave Tomlin the credit for that cut up that rallied the team, Zivco. I guess you think he's a sellout for helping hype the "Tomlin media spin"?

As for the return: Timmons, Deshea, Kiesel, and Woodley all made key blocks. Yeah, Deshea took a bit to get going but in the end threw down Warner to get him out of the play. And Fitzgerald was diverted so far OOB he had no chance to catch up enough to catch Harrison in time. A couple of guys did also catch up at the end, but they only had Clark to pass up and had better angles to do it.

This idea that because not every Cardinal was cleanly blocked the Steelers failed and it was all James?

Like I said...imaginative.

At any rate, like I said, I AGREE with you that it's a what have you done for me lately league, and a Tomlin has failed at that.

But to pretend he was a potted plant that had zip to do with the Steelers' success early in his career is just dumb.


hey, hey, hey. Not drilling for at least two hours of practice per day on 99 yard TDs returns is on TOMLIN. No one else.

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Post by Legacy User » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:58 pm

Jeemie wrote:Troy Polamalu gave Tomlin the credit for that cut up that rallied the team, Zivco. I guess you think he's a sellout for helping hype the "Tomlin media spin"?


Here are TPs quotes immediately following the game on the Harrison pick-

“We don’t win the Super Bowl if he doesn’t catch that and score,” Polamalu said. “If he catches it [but doesn’t score], we lose the Super Bowl.”

"In my mind I’m like, 'If I leave my guy and I go over there and they don’t throw it, Coach [Dick] LeBeau is going to be really mad at me,'" Polamalu said. "So in my mind I’m like, 'Do I go, do I not go? Do I go, do I not go?'"

I never heard of the mash up until I heard Tomlin crediting it to himself and acting as if he were responsible for the Bucs turnover conversion in the SB he was a DB coach in. In fact the sidelines footage in the SB highlight footage.

Jeemie wrote:As for the return: Timmons, Deshea, Kiesel, and Woodley all made key blocks. Yeah, Deshea took a bit to get going but in the end threw down Warner to get him out of the play. And Fitzgerald was diverted so far OOB he had no chance to catch up enough to catch Harrison in time. A couple of guys did also catch up at the end, but they only had Clark to pass up and had better angles to do it.


No, Townsend needed to stick to Warner immediately. Kiesal's peel back was irrelevant. And the whole point is if the convoy was effective no one catches up in the end. More importantly I just looked at two random regular season int returns vs the Ravens and they had better blocking. Point is, this defense has always looked to annihilate offensive players on returns...back when we were good anyway.

it's still yggy wrote:hey, hey, hey. Not drilling for at least two hours of practice per day on 99 yard TDs returns is on TOMLIN. No one else.


I was going to leave the whole thing alone...but there is always a wise ass that suggests just the opposite of what I think lately.

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Post by jeemie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 pm

"Me...I would have kept sleeping. But that's why he's a great coach"

Troy upon Tomlin getting up from bed and making the cut up to inspire his defense to rally after INTs. And he never said his guys NEVER convoyed...he said they WEREN'T doing it in practice that week.

And bullshit that because the convoy wasn't 100% effective, it wasn't relevant at all. That's just dumb. The whole reason those guys couldn't catch up in time was BECAUSE of the convoy.

PS Tomlin didn't take credit for what happened in Super Bowl XXXVII. He simply said the Steelers would need the effort Tampa gave in that Super Bowl to win.

He also didn't take credit for the interception and return- he gave it to his players.

PPS They wouldn't have lost the Super Bowl had Harrison failed to score. There was a penalty on Arizona on the INT return- the Steelers would have gotten one more play.
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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:33 pm

Who gives a flying fuck what Tomlin did in a Super Bowl what, 6 fucking years ago?

Who gives a fuck?
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Post by Ice » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:17 pm

KC wrote:Who gives a flying fuck what Tomlin did in a Super Bowl what, 6 fucking years ago?

Who gives a fuck?


7 more days...
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Post by jeemie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:35 pm

KC wrote:Who gives a flying fuck what Tomlin did in a Super Bowl what, 6 fucking years ago?

Who gives a fuck?


Those who want to say Tomlin has always been a bad coach who contributed nothing his whole time here, that's who.
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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:49 pm

Jeemie wrote:
KC wrote:Who gives a flying fuck what Tomlin did in a Super Bowl what, 6 fucking years ago?

Who gives a fuck?


Those who want to say Tomlin has always been a bad coach who contributed nothing his whole time here, that's who.


Cool.

He contributed 6 years ago.

That's a plus for us.

Yay.
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Post by jeemie » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:20 pm

KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
KC wrote:Who gives a flying fuck what Tomlin did in a Super Bowl what, 6 fucking years ago?

Who gives a fuck?


Those who want to say Tomlin has always been a bad coach who contributed nothing his whole time here, that's who.


Cool.

He contributed 6 years ago.

That's a plus for us.

Yay.


If you read on, you will see I agreed he has fallen short lately.
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Post by Legacy User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:21 pm

And I for one am going to be eternally happy that he contributed a Lombardi whether it's 6 or 60 years ago.

Some people are so ungrateful.

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Post by K_C_ » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:41 pm

Poltargyst wrote:And I for one am going to be eternally happy that he contributed a Lombardi whether it's 6 or 60 years ago.

Some people are so ungrateful.


You can live in the past if you want.

Put on your pom poms and go crazy.

I'll be "ungrateful" and believe Tomlin should be fucking fired if we miss the playoffs 3 straight years with Ben Roethlisberger in his prime.
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Post by Legacy User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:22 pm

Or like I've been saying, we're going through a natural rebuilding phase and will get back to challenging when the pieces are in place, though I agree I expect to see some improvement this year.

Just remember, when the Steelers are back in the playoffs these 8-8 seasons will be in the past and completely irrelevant.

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Post by Legacy User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:54 pm

KC wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:And I for one am going to be eternally happy that he contributed a Lombardi whether it's 6 or 60 years ago.

Some people are so ungrateful.


You can live in the past if you want.

Put on your pom poms and go crazy.

I'll be "ungrateful" and believe Tomlin should be fucking fired if we miss the playoffs 3 straight years with Ben Roethlisberger in his prime.



Lets see:

Bradshaw and Lombardis

Bags of shit and no Lombardis

Ben and Lombardis

Ben and Tomlin's stamp on the team and no Lombardis

When Ben is gone a string of bags of shit and Lombardis long time no come see.

Instead of how do we win more Lombardis with Ben we have the HC doing a my way or the highway dance. Looks like you got it about right.

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Post by Legacy User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:36 pm

KC wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:And I for one am going to be eternally happy that he contributed a Lombardi whether it's 6 or 60 years ago.

Some people are so ungrateful.


You can live in the past if you want.

Put on your pom poms and go crazy.

I'll be "ungrateful" and believe Tomlin should be fucking fired if we miss the playoffs 3 straight years with Ben Roethlisberger in his prime.


Look who's accusing someone of having pom poms :shock: :lol:

WOW !!!!

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Post by K_C_ » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:19 am

Iron_City wrote:
KC wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:And I for one am going to be eternally happy that he contributed a Lombardi whether it's 6 or 60 years ago.

Some people are so ungrateful.


You can live in the past if you want.

Put on your pom poms and go crazy.

I'll be "ungrateful" and believe Tomlin should be fucking fired if we miss the playoffs 3 straight years with Ben Roethlisberger in his prime.


Look who's accusing someone of having pom poms :shock: :lol:

WOW !!!!


Tell us all again how we should sign Hines Ward for another year, even after he proved he could barely walk (let alone run.)

"I'd keep all of 'em."

:lol:

Fuckin' brilliant!!!
"...It's very difficult to keep the line between the past and the present... Do you know what I mean...?"

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Post by Aussie_steeler » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:36 am

This probably deserves a thread of its own but given the current state of this thread I will place it here.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/must-see-chp-patient-hooks-catch-lifetime-steelers/ngFNS/

As a parent of a special needs child this resonates with me in a big way.

The NFL needs more people like this. The younger generation needs to realise that actions speak louder than words

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