Pats Video Crew at Bengals Browns Game under Investigation

[COR-TEN]

I would love to know if the "scout team" needed B roll footage from every week. That would tell quite a bit of the story.

That's the first thing I thought of. Have they done this with all their opponents? Or maybe their scout team members are doing a shitty job in stealing or deciphering signals, thus explaining the hiccup in their success. But the bengals have only won one game. One. Over 14 weeks.

[franco32]

LMAO at the Patriots response. So, you had a fixed camera on the Bengal's coaches for 8 minutes (and the only reason it wasn't longer is because you got caught). But we are to believe it is for a Patriots.com documentary

These fuckin cheating frauds will never learn. Some of these talking heads are saying "well why would they do this to a 1-12 team." Are you kidding me? Bill Belichick...the master of detail, the obsessive compulsive who leaves no stone unturned and doesn't ever take a single play for granted...of course he will want EVERY advantage against EVERY opponent.

They were stealing hand signals from the Bengals so Ernie could decode them and have them ready for gameday. It's as simple as that. If I were the NFL, I'd request their whole fuckin email server and then you will get to the truth...but we know they won't do that.

These motherfckers deserve SB stripped from them and bans from playoff competition. They never learn and they are laughing all the way to more Lombardi trophies.

[Jizz Mop]

For everyone hoping something will happen out of this....sorry..it won’t

They (the NFL) are quickly trying to make this go away

There will be no punishment

Anyone remember this?

https://www.wpxi.com/news/report-patrio ... c/27027356

They ended up destroying those notes on the Steelers.....why?

Corruption and cover up at the highest level

[Drummer Boy]

They want the #1 pick in 2021. Gotta find out how Cincy does it!

[jebrick]

I still think this is a big nothing burger but every time the Pats have a statement on this it sounds worst. So they were filming the sidelines AFTER the documentary crew left.

And if there is any team in the NFL that should be careful about this situation it is the Pats.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

This thread reminded me that the moment I stopped loving the NFL was the moment they destroyed the Rams tape and swept Spygate under the rug.

I don't see how you ever get your reputation back. The NFL, not the Patriots.

This is basically Keenesaw Mountain Landis burning the check stubs to the Black Sox, granting them the 1919 championship and pretending it didn't happen.

[Kodiak]

Some of these talking heads are saying "well why would they do this to a 1-12 team."

Yeah, but coaches move around so you're constantly adding to your database.

And this is something they can do that doesn't add any additional work/stress to the players. Also, you perfect process through repetition and evolution.

Sure, CIN is 1-12. But if you don't figure to get caught, and won't get punished if you do, then why handicap yourself? They stack micro-advantages - has nothing to do with the opponent this is just SOP every week for every opponent.


I have 0 doubt this is the foundation of all their success. They film sidelines looking for tells, just like a poker player. You have all your research on formations, personnel, tendencies and down & distance....And let's say most teams can narrow that down to like 5-6 plays. Along comes the film crew with Ernie and his photographic memory and now you have a 50/50 shot of guessing the play.

[Kodiak]

I still think this is a big nothing burger....

I think part of the brilliance of their cheating schemes is that most people are very dismissive because they have no idea how you'd gain an advantage from it.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

I think some people have developed a kind of Stockholm Syndrome about institutional cheating. Basically, what can you do, it's Chinatown, Jake. Sorry it still pissed me off and I have never forgiven Goodell.

[Kodiak]

I think some people have developed a kind of Stockholm Syndrome about institutional cheating. Basically, what can you do, it's Chinatown, Jake. Sorry it still pissed me off and I have never forgiven Goodell.

And if the talking heads go off-script, the NFL calls their bosses.

[jebrick]

From BSPN

The Pats have been very systematic in their cheating efforts and Eric Mangini detailed a lot of it after he got fired. He didn't want BB doing the same thing to his Jets team and that's how the first round of Spygate was launched. Did you not wonder why all of the BB assistants sucked once they left the organization ?
Those coaches spent untold hours learning from the Master, but once on their own, they couldn't replicate his success.. likely because they didn't cheat. Compare that to the Bill Walsh coaching tree and you'll note the stark difference - several Walsh assistants went on to win several Titles, BB assistants did not

The most important thing BB learned from Ernie Adams was how the Wall Street guys handled the various rules and regs from the SEC. Ernie taught Bill how they would do the math to determine if the cheating was worth it. What are the chances of success, what is the reward, what are the potential penalties and is this specific case worth the risk incurred ?

For example: If you have a 90 % chance of making a billion in profit by bending the rules ( insider info) then you weigh that against the chances of getting caught, say 33% and the ensuing fines, say $100 million. Plug all of that into the equation and you can decide if its worth the risk

In the case of the NFL, the league is pretty toothless on these infractions. Who wouldn't trade a SB win for a measly draft pick or some meaningless fine ?
The NFL also has to manage the integrity of the game, so while they do want to punish the cheaters, they are happy to bury evidence when it suits the greater goal - making money and keeping the public confidence in the NFL high:

"Goodell tried to assuage his bosses: He ordered the destruction of the tapes and notes, he insisted, so they couldn't be exploited again. Many in the room didn't believe it. And some would conclude it was as if Goodell, Kraft and Belichick had acted like partners, complicit in trying to sweep the scandal's details under the rug while the rest of the league was left wondering how much glory the Patriots' cheating had cost their teams. "Goodell didn't want anybody to know that his gold franchise had won Super Bowls by cheating," a senior executive said. "If that gets out, that hurts your business."

As far as the naive question of "what would they gain ? " - too many are discounting the value of filming from the lip- reading POV.
Why do all coaches try to hide their mouths when they are making offensive/defensive calls ? Why do they all hide behind their call sheets ?

Because they know the video is rolling. IF there was no value in the video, then why does the league forbid it ?

Lots of conversations are going on and any info gleaned is quite useful when combined with the other collected data in terms of helping to win games.
Don't think of the illegal video in isolation, think of it as one critical part of the overall puzzle.

Yes, the bengals are 1-12, but they are also next weeks' opponent AND those coaches are likley to show up elsewhere over time. If you're building a dossier like the Pats have, it matters not what the current record is - what matters is having a full set of info on everybody.
Brady even let it slip one time when talking about Aaron Rodgers:

"Tom Brady once told an NFL coach, if Aaron Rodgers had Patriots' institutional knowledge on opposing defenses,
"He'd throw for 7,000 yards every year. He's so much more talented than me."

Its really a damn shame imo.
Instead of being the greatest coach/dynasty in NFL history, all of their accomplishments are forever stained because Bill and Ernie took it too far.


TL/DR:
The Kraft / Belichick Pats are serial cheaters... and they know the anemic penalties will pale in comparison to the glory of another Title.
So they keep on doing it. "Film" at 11

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/i ... iots-apart

[Orangesteel]

Some of these talking heads are saying "well why would they do this to a 1-12 team."

Yeah, but coaches move around so you're constantly adding to your database.

And this is something they can do that doesn't add any additional work/stress to the players. Also, you perfect process through repetition and evolution.

Sure, CIN is 1-12. But if you don't figure to get caught, and won't get punished if you do, then why handicap yourself? They stack micro-advantages - has nothing to do with the opponent this is just SOP every week for every opponent.


I have 0 doubt this is the foundation of all their success. They film sidelines looking for tells, just like a poker player. You have all your research on formations, personnel, tendencies and down & distance....And let's say most teams can narrow that down to like 5-6 plays. Along comes the film crew with Ernie and his photographic memory and now you have a 50/50 shot of guessing the play.

And to add to this, if anyone thinks that the Pats as currently constructed is a sure fire bet to beat the Bengals in Cincy, well then you haven’t watched the Pats lately and don’t understand the “week to week” element of the NFL these days.

Literally any team can beat any team any given week. BB and Ernie are going against a coach and a defense they have never faced before. They are fielding an offense that looks completely lost and totally predictable. Could the Pats lose to the now Dalton-led Bengals in Cincy? Absolutely.

That is why they cheat. Any competitive means necessary to give yourself an advantage and at whatever cost.

The result? 20 years of dominance, 6 Lombardi trophies and could have been several more without some wildly amazing efforts by their opponents. Scary stuff.

[BethlehemSteel]

LMAO at the Patriots response. So, you had a fixed camera on the Bengal's coaches for 8 minutes (and the only reason it wasn't longer is because you got caught). But we are to believe it is for a Patriots.com documentary

These fuckin cheating frauds will never learn. Some of these talking heads are saying "well why would they do this to a 1-12 team." Are you kidding me? Bill Belichick...the master of detail, the obsessive compulsive who leaves no stone unturned and doesn't ever take a single play for granted...of course he will want EVERY advantage against EVERY opponent.

They were stealing hand signals from the Bengals so Ernie could decode them and have them ready for gameday. It's as simple as that. If I were the NFL, I'd request their whole fuckin email server and then you will get to the truth...but we know they won't do that.

These motherfckers deserve SB stripped from them and bans from playoff competition. They never learn and they are laughing all the way to more Lombardi trophies.

Exactly, and When BB says again today (he did) he has no involvement or use of said videos........... He's not lying. He never looks at them, only Ernie does and send in the play changes to BB's lackey son.

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

This is basically Keenesaw Mountain Landis burning the check stubs to the Black Sox, granting them the 1919 championship and pretending it didn't happen.

lol, Spoiler Alert - the Sox didn't win the championship that year because they lost it on purpose.

[FortyThree]

So during the Bills/Pats game earlier this season Sean McDermott caught two Patriots staff members on his sideline during warmups and personally escorted them off the field. There is video of this.

They were on the field while the Bills were practicing punting.

The Patriots won the game by blocking a punt.

Hopefully BENGALZI is just getting started.

[Baltostiller]

Some of these talking heads are saying "well why would they do this to a 1-12 team."

Yeah, but coaches move around so you're constantly adding to your database.

And this is something they can do that doesn't add any additional work/stress to the players. Also, you perfect process through repetition and evolution.

Sure, CIN is 1-12. But if you don't figure to get caught, and won't get punished if you do, then why handicap yourself? They stack micro-advantages - has nothing to do with the opponent this is just SOP every week for every opponent.


I have 0 doubt this is the foundation of all their success. They film sidelines looking for tells, just like a poker player. You have all your research on formations, personnel, tendencies and down & distance....And let's say most teams can narrow that down to like 5-6 plays. Along comes the film crew with Ernie and his photographic memory and now you have a 50/50 shot of guessing the play.

And to add to this, if anyone thinks that the Pats as currently constructed is a sure fire bet to beat the Bengals in Cincy, well then you haven’t watched the Pats lately and don’t understand the “week to week” element of the NFL these days.

Literally any team can beat any team any given week. BB and Ernie are going against a coach and a defense they have never faced before. They are fielding an offense that looks completely lost and totally predictable. Could the Pats lose to the now Dalton-led Bengals in Cincy? Absolutely.

That is why they cheat. Any competitive means necessary to give yourself an advantage and at whatever cost.

The result? 20 years of dominance, 6 Lombardi trophies and could have been several more without some wildly amazing efforts by their opponents. Scary stuff.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. This is exactly why these cheating bastards would send a "camera crew" to get this info. They have no idea what this coaching staff will do. I hope the NFL buries these motherfuckers...but I know they are just weaving a larger rug under which to sweep this. I really hope the Bengals staff was smart enough to keep a copy of that video before they turned it over to the league.

[SteelPro]

I just want to add the Browns might be the dumbest professional sports organization in the history of professional sports. What kind of idiot would authorize the Patriots to film something in their stadium when the Pats' team isn't even involved on that day? If it was my team and that request came to my desk the answer would be a "hard no" and a "go fuck yourself".

[BethlehemSteel]

So during the Bills/Pats game earlier this season Sean McDermott caught two Patriots staff members on his sideline during warmups and personally escorted them off the field. There is video of this.

They were on the field while the Bills were practicing punting.

The Patriots won the game by blocking a punt.

Hopefully BENGALZI is just getting started.

Was gonna ask you if you had any hand in as the independent film contractor in CInci, providing the assist??

I missed that story about Buffalo. I wonder if that gets rolled in. The Owners have to demand to see this and i think they weigh in on punishment.

I say make Kraft sell the team, BB out, Brady, well he can suck donkey nuts

[FortyThree]

I just want to add the Browns might be the dumbest professional sports organization in the history of professional sports. What kind of idiot would authorize the Patriots to film something in their stadium when the Pats' team isn't even involved on that day? If it was my team and that request came to my desk the answer would be a "hard no" and a "go fuck yourself".

One that planned on alerting the Bengals. Or the league.

Then again it's the Browns so they're probably just stupid as fuck.

[Orangesteel]

Haha

[BethlehemSteel]

I just want to add the Browns might be the dumbest professional sports organization in the history of professional sports. What kind of idiot would authorize the Patriots to film something in their stadium when the Pats' team isn't even involved on that day? If it was my team and that request came to my desk the answer would be a "hard no" and a "go fuck yourself".

One that planned on alerting the Bengals. Or the league.

Then again it's the Browns so they're probably just stupid as fuck.

thats why they prob went along, that org is cooked

[blu]

With New England's deteriorating play, it's probably even more necessary to cheat. But realistically, as mentioned above, they have been cheating all along. Was it Hines Ward who said after playing the cheaters - they seemed to know what we were doing next even before we did.

[BethlehemSteel]

With New England's deteriorating play, it's probably even more necessary to cheat. But realistically, as mentioned above, they have been cheating all along. Was it Hines Ward who said after playing the cheaters - they seemed to know what we were doing next even before we did.

I suspect it's to help them keep home field for the playoffs

their play looks like they have a few more losses in them, so we know HOME FIELD OUTLIERS matter to the Cheats

[BethlehemSteel]

Trollin Volin says Bengals are Livid and will make NE face heavy punishment.... too much history

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patr ... story.html

The Patriots admitted that their videographers broke NFL rules and characterized it as a misunderstanding involving independent contractors who didn’t know the rules. However, the Bengals are “livid,” according to multiple league sources, and the Patriots may be hard-pressed to avoid a punishment, given their history.

“They’re not getting out of this one,” said one league source with close ties to the Bengals. “They got caught red-handed. I mean, dead to rights. Too much of this stuff is on tape.”

According to multiple sources, a Bengals employee got out his own camera and filmed the Patriots videographer shooting his video, which lasted approximately eight minutes, according to The Athletic.

Advertisement

“There is video of the video,” one of the sources said.

Between the first and second quarters, the Bengals employee then got several people involved — Bengals security, the NFL representative on hand, and Bengals executives, including director of player personnel Duke Tobin, the team’s de facto general manager.

The matter was moved without incident to the back of the press box in the dining area, where the Kraft videographer was further questioned. The videographer offered to delete the footage on the spot, but the NFL instead took his video card as evidence.

Multiple sources described Tobin and Cincinnati coach Zac Taylor as “livid” over the incident, and one source said owner Mike Brown is upset as well. The Bengals may be 1-12, but Taylor and his coaching staff are new this year, and the footage could have been useful for the Patriots as they prepare for Sunday’s game.

“This is just bold and reckless,” one source said.

more in the article

[BethlehemSteel]

more coming out. must be the Bengals making sure GOodell can't cover up.

OMF
@OMFonWEEI
.
@GlennDOrdway
is hearing #Patriots video of the Bengals sideline is longer than 8 minutes:

"Somebody who has knowledge of that video told me there is a considerable amount of video... they're concerned internally down there in Foxboro"

[Drummer Boy]

From BSPN

The Pats have been very systematic in their cheating efforts and Eric Mangini detailed a lot of it after he got fired. He didn't want BB doing the same thing to his Jets team and that's how the first round of Spygate was launched. Did you not wonder why all of the BB assistants sucked once they left the organization ?
Those coaches spent untold hours learning from the Master, but once on their own, they couldn't replicate his success.. likely because they didn't cheat. Compare that to the Bill Walsh coaching tree and you'll note the stark difference - several Walsh assistants went on to win several Titles, BB assistants did not

The most important thing BB learned from Ernie Adams was how the Wall Street guys handled the various rules and regs from the SEC. Ernie taught Bill how they would do the math to determine if the cheating was worth it. What are the chances of success, what is the reward, what are the potential penalties and is this specific case worth the risk incurred ?

For example: If you have a 90 % chance of making a billion in profit by bending the rules ( insider info) then you weigh that against the chances of getting caught, say 33% and the ensuing fines, say $100 million. Plug all of that into the equation and you can decide if its worth the risk

In the case of the NFL, the league is pretty toothless on these infractions. Who wouldn't trade a SB win for a measly draft pick or some meaningless fine ?
The NFL also has to manage the integrity of the game, so while they do want to punish the cheaters, they are happy to bury evidence when it suits the greater goal - making money and keeping the public confidence in the NFL high:

"Goodell tried to assuage his bosses: He ordered the destruction of the tapes and notes, he insisted, so they couldn't be exploited again. Many in the room didn't believe it. And some would conclude it was as if Goodell, Kraft and Belichick had acted like partners, complicit in trying to sweep the scandal's details under the rug while the rest of the league was left wondering how much glory the Patriots' cheating had cost their teams. "Goodell didn't want anybody to know that his gold franchise had won Super Bowls by cheating," a senior executive said. "If that gets out, that hurts your business."

As far as the naive question of "what would they gain ? " - too many are discounting the value of filming from the lip- reading POV.
Why do all coaches try to hide their mouths when they are making offensive/defensive calls ? Why do they all hide behind their call sheets ?

Because they know the video is rolling. IF there was no value in the video, then why does the league forbid it ?

Lots of conversations are going on and any info gleaned is quite useful when combined with the other collected data in terms of helping to win games.
Don't think of the illegal video in isolation, think of it as one critical part of the overall puzzle.

Yes, the bengals are 1-12, but they are also next weeks' opponent AND those coaches are likley to show up elsewhere over time. If you're building a dossier like the Pats have, it matters not what the current record is - what matters is having a full set of info on everybody.
Brady even let it slip one time when talking about Aaron Rodgers:

"Tom Brady once told an NFL coach, if Aaron Rodgers had Patriots' institutional knowledge on opposing defenses,
"He'd throw for 7,000 yards every year. He's so much more talented than me."

Its really a damn shame imo.
Instead of being the greatest coach/dynasty in NFL history, all of their accomplishments are forever stained because Bill and Ernie took it too far.


TL/DR:
The Kraft / Belichick Pats are serial cheaters... and they know the anemic penalties will pale in comparison to the glory of another Title.
So they keep on doing it. "Film" at 11

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/i ... iots-apart

I have been doubting this because it's the Bengals. But that is pretty convincing, Jebrick!

[stillthere]

I just want to add the Browns might be the dumbest professional sports organization in the history of professional sports. What kind of idiot would authorize the Patriots to film something in their stadium when the Pats' team isn't even involved on that day? If it was my team and that request came to my desk the answer would be a "hard no" and a "go fuck yourself".

The Pats I assume use a scout when they play at home for division games or late season games vs opponents that they may see in the playoffs. They could film what that guy does at home and have no issues.

[FortyThree]

Just saw I think it was Crapreport who tweeted that the NFL is "inclined to believe the Patriots story" and that the punishment is likely to be a fine.

[Jizz Mop]

Just saw I think it was Crapreport who tweeted that the NFL is "inclined to believe the Patriots story" and that the punishment is likely to be a fine.

Shocker

[BethlehemSteel]

Crapreport. A shitpile is more enticing