Colbert ranked as #2 GM in league at drafting

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Colbert ranked as #2 GM in league at drafting

Post by stillthere » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:44 pm

https://www.nfl.com/news/general-manage ... ft-edition
Purely Gregg Rosenthal's opinion
General Manager Power Rankings: NFL draft edition!

Published: Apr 15, 2021 at 02:15 PM
Gregg Rosenthal
Around The NFL Editor



Drafting is hard. Ranking teams based on how they draft is easy. Instead of evaluating general managers this year based on the totality of their job, I thought it'd be fun to only focus on how they used their draft capital. It's a self-selecting group, because the names that would be at the bottom of this list ultimately lost their jobs. For the purposes of this column, I only went back to 2015 and I did not include the nine GMs who have run one draft or less.

All decisions are mine, indisputable and should not be held against other NFL Network reporters. Especially @RapSheet.

1) Chris Ballard, Colts

Best pick: Quenton Nelson | Round 1 (No. 6), 2018
Worst pick: Quincy Wilson | Round 2 (No. 46), 2017

Ballard's reputation as one of the league's best drafters is well earned, especially after coach Frank Reich joined him in Indianapolis. Ballard will be dining off the 2018 draft for years, with two All-Pros (Nelson and Darius Leonard), another great starter ( Braden Smith) and a terrific role player Nyheim Hines all in the same class. The 2020 crop of Michael Pittman, Jonathan Taylor and Defensive Rookie of the Year candidate Julian Blackmon is proof you don't need a first-round pick for a draft class to make a huge impact. Ballard benefits in this exercise from having the job for just five years, because the more you draft, the more mistakes are bound to happen.
2) Kevin Colbert, Steelers

Best pick: T.J. Watt | Round 1 (No. 30), 2017
Worst pick: Senquez Golson | Round 2 (No. 56), 2015

Colbert never finished below third in my previous iterations of the GM Power Rankings, and the new parameters in this year's exercise doesn't change his standing. His first-round picks since 2015 include T.J. Watt and Bud Dupree, as well as one used to acquire Minkah Fitzpatrick.

Colbert's legendary run of drafting wideouts has continued apace, with JuJu Smith-Schuster, Diontae Johnson and Chase Claypool in the last six years, none in the top 45 picks. Even his poor drafts, such as in 2016, usually have a gem (Javon Hargrave), while classes like the Steelers' 2020 group (included starters Kevin Dotson, Alex Highsmith and Claypool) are a regular occurrence. Colbert's draft record is the biggest reason why the Steelers have the third-most wins in the NFL since he became the team's GM in 2010. His place this high despite some lost drafts (2018) is also a sign there's not that much separating the best drafting teams and the middle of the pack.
3) Jason Licht, Buccaneers

Best pick: Tristan Wirfs | Round 1 (No. 13), 2020
Worst pick: Vernon Hargreaves III | Round 1 (No. 11), 2016

Licht's tenure in Tampa makes the case for being patient. He survived Lovie Smith, Dirk Koetter, Jameis Winston and three double-digit-loss seasons to come out the other side a champion with the help of Tom Brady and Bruce Arians. Despite the flashy free-agent signings in recent years, Licht built the Bucs' foundation through the draft, with Ali Marpet, Vita Vea, Chris Godwin, Devin White, Carlton Davis, Donovan Smith and Sean Murphy-Bunting all playing massive roles in the team's title. These were good players before Brady arrived, and the stellar 2020 draft class (headlined by Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr.) helped put the team over the top.
4) Brandon Beane/Sean McDermott, Bills

Best pick: Josh Allen | Round 1 (No. 7), 2018
Worst pick: Zay Jones | Round 2 (No. 37), 2017

McDermott is the alpha in Buffalo because he essentially hired Beane, but there's no gray area regarding the job the Bills' front office has done since McDermott arrived. His first draft in Buffalo (without Beane, who came aboard shortly after) included Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano. They've all signed long-term extensions since. Beane's aggressive move to trade up for Josh Allen in 2018 will define his tenure for as long as the quarterback thrives. Buffalo had a vision for Allen, and then executed the best way to support him, even if the last two Bills drafts are shaping up as less noteworthy.
5) Mickey Loomis, Saints

Best pick: Alvin Kamara | Round 3 (No. 67), 2017
Worst pick: Stephone Anthony | Round 1 (No. 31), 2015

The Saints' 2017 draft class will go down as one of the best ever, including two players among the best at their respective positions (RB Alvin Kamara and RT Ryan Ramczyk) and three more high quality starters in CB Marshon Lattimore, S Marcus Williams and DE Trey Hendrickson. The Saints' draft record over the last six years otherwise is pretty typical, with a few major finds (Michael Thomas) and some splashy misfires (the trade for Marcus Davenport, so far). Ultimately, New Orleans has done a better job than most at finding role players, one reason they've won more regular-season games than any other team over the last four years.
6) Rick Spielman, Vikings

Best pick: Justin Jefferson | Round 1 (No. 22), 2021
Worst pick: Laquon Treadwell | Round 1 (No. 23), 2016

Spielman has quietly been with the Vikings since 2006 and received the general manager title in 2012. Selecting Justin Jefferson last year was the latest in a string of big draft hits (Stefon Diggs, Danielle Hunter, Eric Kendricks and Dalvin Cook). Plucking five Pro Bowlers over the past six drafts is impressive, though Spielman's getting further removed from the 2015 bounty that landed Diggs, Hunter and Hendricks. The Vikings GM would rank even higher if not for a few first-round misfires (Laquon Treadwell, Mike Hughes, Garrett Bradbury) and a general struggle to solve the offensive line despite investing a lot of draft capital.
7) Jon Robinson, Titans

Best pick: A.J. Brown | Round 2 (No. 51), 2019
Worst pick: Isaiah Wilson | Round 1 (No. 29), 2020

Robinson started his tenure with a bang, taking Jack Conklin, Derrick Henry and Kevin Byard in his first draft for then-coach Mike Mularkey. Robinson hasn't hit that level since, but the front office has uncovered difference-makers like A.J. Brown, Jonnu Smith and Jayon Brown from surprising places in the draft. Last year's first-round pick, Isaiah Wilson, turned into an all-time miss, but I otherwise appreciate that the Titans have a type. A lot of teams say they want physical players, but no team looks better coming off the bus than a Jon Robinson team.
8) Jerry Jones, Cowboys

Best Pick: Dak Prescott | Round 4 (No. 135), 2016
Worst pick: Taco Charlton | Round 1 (No. 28), 2017

So what if the Cowboys wanted Paxton Lynch instead of Dak Prescott? They still get credit for Prescott in this exercise, in addition to four more Pro Bowlers drafted since 2015: Ezekiel Elliott, Byron Jones, Leighton Vander Esch and Jaylon Smith. Handing Smith a huge contract while letting Jones go speaks to bigger, long-standing, self-scouting issues in the front office, but it's hard to fault this team's draft process too much. If the Cowboys could draft on the defensive line as well as they do at wideout (CeeDee Lamb, Michael Gallup), they'd land even higher.
Slater, Billick: Scenarios for Cowboys' No. 10 pick
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9) John Lynch, 49ers

Best pick: George Kittle | Round 5 (No. 146), 2017
Worst pick: Reuben Foster | Round 1 (No. 31), 2017

Drafting Solomon Thomas No. 3 overall and Reuben Foster later in the first round of 2017 got the Lynch/Kyle Shanahan era off to a messy start, before George Kittle fell to them in the fifth round. The 2018 class included tackle Mike McGlinchey and linebacker Fred Warner, while 2019 picks Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel helped the team get to a Super Bowl. Brandon Aiyuk, a 2020 first-rounder, looks like another foundational piece. Since the 2017 misfires, the 49ers have mostly made their premium picks count.
10) Brett Veach, Chiefs

Best pick: Patrick Mahomes | Round 1 (No. 10), 2017
Worst pick: Breeland Speaks | Round 2 (No. 46), 2018

Veach was difficult to rank in this exercise. Patrick Mahomes could prove to be the biggest franchise-changing pick in NFL history, and the Chiefs traded up to get him. They could be No. 1 just for that! Then again, only two of the other 23 draft picks since Mahomes was taken have started at least 25 games: Derrick Nnadi and Kareem Hunt. The team has done a fine job finding role players like Rashad Fenton, Mecole Hardman and L'Jarius Sneed, but Veach needs to start drafting more starters or the talent pool could run dry.
11) Tom Telesco, Chargers

Best pick: Justin Herbert | Round 1 (No. 6), 2020
Worst pick: Forrest Lamp | Round 2 (No. 38), 2017

Justin Herbert. Derwin James. Joey Bosa. Hunter Henry. Keenan Allen. While Allen doesn't count for this exercise, the span of these prime-time players drafted to wear Chargers blue is a credit to Telesco and the reason why he's quietly the ninth-longest tenured GM in football, depending how you count Jerry Jones in Dallas and Mike Brown in Cincinnati. Telesco's biggest shortcoming -- hiring coaches -- is not a factor here and his struggles to construct an offensive line is only partly about his draft mistakes. If there is criticism, it's that the Bolts have often struggled to build out the depth of their roster to support the surfeit of stars.
12) Pete Carroll/John Schneider, Seahawks

Best pick: DK Metcalf | Round 2 (No. 64), 2019
Worst pick: Rashaad Penny | Round 1 (No. 27), 2018

I included Carroll here because he helped hire Schneider and has final authority in personnel decisions. The Seahawks are always good for a few surprises on draft day, but they've had their share of hits since 2015: Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, Frank Clark, Jarran Reed and Shaquill Griffin among them. Critics have blamed the 'Hawks for not prioritizing the offensive line, but it's more accurate to say they've just chosen and coached the position poorly. There are few too many early picks that haven't contributed much, including Marquise Blair, L.J. Collier, Rashaad Penny, Malik McDowell and Amara Darboh.
13) Brian Gutekunst, Packers

Best pick: Jaire Alexander | Round 1 (No. 18), 2018
Worst pick: N/A

First impressions mean a lot. "Gutey" found a Pro Bowl cornerback with his first-ever draft pick, Jaire Alexander, which stands out even more because the organization has missed so often at the position. 2019 second-round offensive lineman Elgton Jenkins is another big hit, while 2019 first-rounders Rashan Gary and Darnell Savage are solid contributors. Gutekunst was mocked for drafting Jordan Love with Aaron Rodgers in the building, but it's nearly impossible to spend too much draft capital at the league's most important position. The grade on that pick is yet to be written.
14) Duke Tobin, Bengals

Best pick: Tyler Boyd | Round 2 (No. 55), 2016
Worst pick: Cedric Ogbuehi | Round 1 (No. 21), 2015

The Bengals like to keep their power structure mysterious, but it's clear Tobin has run the team's drafts since before Marvin Lewis was excised. Aside from a glaring shortcoming when it comes to early O-line picks (Billy Price, Cedric Ogbuehi), Tobin's drafts make sense. Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon, Jessie Bates and Tee Higgins are second-round picks that play like firsts. Carl Lawson and Sam Hubbard were fantastic mid-round defensive picks. No matter what happens from here on out with Joe Burrow, the Bengals are proof that you need to do more than stack rock-solid drafts to succeed at the highest levels.
15) Les Snead, Rams

Best pick: Cooper Kupp | Round 3 (No. 69), 2017
Worst pick: N/A

The Rams don't treat the draft like any other team. They are set to go seven straight years without using a first-round selection after taking Todd Gurley and Jared Goff in 2015 and '16. While Goff and Gurley's second contracts were huge mistakes, it's hard to destroy this trade strategy. The Rams are among the top-five teams in wins since Sean McVay arrived, despite mid-level quarterback play. They have found contributors outside the first round (Cooper Kupp, John Johnson, Rob Havenstein, Cam Akers), but there's no denying this approach has left them thinner and more reliant on trades and free agency than any other team in football. It's a fascinating experiment that has mostly worked thus far, even if they receive an unspectacular ranking in this exercise. My cutoff of 2015 hurts Snead here because he drafted Aaron Donald the year before.
16) Chris Grier, Dolphins

Best pick: Laremy Tunsil | Round 1 (No. 13), 2016
Worst pick: Charles Harris | Round 1 (No. 22), 2017

Grier has held the GM title since 2016, but Mike Tannenbaum was above him (VP of football operations) until 2019. I decided to evaluate the draft choices since Grier got the GM title, when his tenure started with a bang in a trade down with Philadelphia that wound up with the Dolphins taking Laremy Tunsil at No. 13 overall. (They took All-Pro Xavien Howard in the second round.) The Dolphins' drafts have been uneven since, but the Tunsil trade in 2019 -- the centerpiece of the team's rebuilding project -- continues to reap dividends. Now we just have to see if any of the five first-round picks and four second-rounders between 2020 and '21 produce any players as good as Tunsil or Minkah Fitzpatrick, who was dealt to Pittsburgh.
Byron Jones: Brian Flores, Chris Grier are 'putting a team together the right way'
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17) Eric DeCosta, Ravens

Best pick: J.K. Dobbins | Round 2 (No. 55), 2020
Worst pick: N/A

Ozzie Newsome left big shoes to fill, especially after selecting Lamar Jackson, Orlando Brown and Mark Andrews in his final draft. It's early, but DeCosta's first two hauls look unlikely to produce a difference-maker. Last year's first-rounder, Patrick Queen, was the lowest-graded rookie linebacker by Pro Football Focus (min. 20% of snaps), but it's too early to put a "worst pick" tag on him. The team's first-round pick in 2019, Marquise "Hollywood" Brown, has played his best in the playoffs.
18) Bill Belichick, Patriots

Best pick: Trey Flowers | Round 4 (No. 101), 2015
Worst pick(s): The second-round DBs

Picking low or not picking at all in the first round (2016, 2017 and 2020) hasn't helped, but the Patriots' recent draft record is abysmal. The struggle to find useful players, especially in 2016 and '17, helps explain their desperation in free agency this year. Even the few mid-round steals the Patriots have uncovered (Trey Flowers, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason) are far in the rearview mirror. Belichick's tendency to draft surprise second-round defensive backs (Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones, Duke Dawson and JoeJuan Williams) has led to very little production, before safety Kyle Dugger arrived last year. It's not as if the Pats' lack of star power in recent drafts was evened out by quality role players. That makes the swings and misses (taking receiver N'Keal Harry when A.J. Brown and Deebo Samuel were available) more noticeable.
19) Steve Keim, Cardinals

Best pick: Budda Baker | Round 2 (No. 36), 2017
Worst pick: Josh Rosen | Round 1 (No. 10), 2018

Keim is on his third coach and third QB since taking over the top job in 2013, which is a rare feat for general managers. His first-round picks besides Kyler Murray have been famously spotty, with Robert Nkemdiche and Josh Rosen standing out as whiffs. That said, Keim still has his job because of a decisive move to take Murray only one year after the Rosen misfire. He avoided doubling down on a big mistake and the Cardinals have a franchise quarterback because of it. That said, Murray was clearly the top QB prospect in 2019, a no-brainer pick in a vacuum. So I chose to spotlight Budda Baker in the honorific above. Keim's next-best picks since 2015 are probably David Johnson and D.J. Humphries. In short, this is not a team that has been built through the draft.
20) Ryan Pace, Bears

Best pick: Eddie Jackson | Round 4 (No. 112), 2017
Worst pick: Mitchell Trubisky | Round 1 (No. 2), 2017

Pace's tenure will be defined by his decision to trade up for Mitchell Trubisky, but it's worth remembering the Bears GM had two drafts before Mitch and three since! (Kevin White was his first pick.) Pace has found a few gems along the way (Eddie Jackson, Cody Whitehair, Roquan Smith, Eddie Goldman, Jaylon Johnson), but the lack of a cohesive plan on offense in an offense-first league is all too apparent. Then again, we'd all look at Pace differently if he hadn't picked Trubisky (or stuck with him for so long).
21) Howie Roseman, Eagles

Best pick: Dallas Goedert | Round 2 (No. 49), 2018
Worst pick: J.J. Arcega-Whiteside | Round 2 (No. 57), 2019

Roseman's first pick back in charge after the Chip Kelly era was Carson Wentz. Signing Wentz to a massive second contract has proven far more costly (the Eagles have a $33.8 million dead-money hit in 2021, per Over The Cap) than moving up to select him second overall, as Wentz contributed significantly to a Super Bowl title and two other playoff teams. The picks Philadelphia traded away for Wentz, however, left the team with a smaller margin for error that Roseman didn't sufficiently compensate for with quality selections. The next-best picks since 2016 include Dallas Goedert, Miles Sanders, Avonte Maddox and Derek Barnett. Roseman deserves credit for an Eagles roster that was loaded from 2017 to '19, but it wasn't because of recent drafts.
22) Dave Gettleman, Giants

Best pick: Dexter Lawrence | Round 1 (No. 17), 2019
Worst pick: Deandre Baker | Round 1 (No. 30), 2019

It's early, but selecting tackle Andrew Thomas at No. 4 overall last year when three standout tackles were taken after him is a troubling sign. Meanwhile, the jury is still out on No. 6 overall pick Daniel Jones. Less so for fellow 2019 first-round pick DeAndre Baker, whom the Giants traded up for but who's no longer on the team. (New York's other first-rounder from two years ago, Dexter Lawrence, is a nice contributor.) It's not Saquon Barkley's fault he tore his ACL, but an offense built around him in 2018-19 had its limitations. Gettleman wants a team full of large humans who can run the ball and stop the run, an approach that's out of step with the current NFL. There is a ticking clock on Gettleman's plan coming together in time.
23) Jon Gruden/Mike Mayock, Raiders

Best pick: Josh Jacobs | Round 1 (No. 24), 2019
Worst pick: Lynn Bowden | Round 3 (No. 80), 2020

I'm counting Gruden's first draft in this exercise because he's had final say, even since Mike Mayock's arrival. The Raiders have taken five first-round draft picks in the last two years, and the best player is running back Josh Jacobs. Mayock's first draft class looked a lot better before the 2020 season, when Maxx Crosby, Trayvon Mullen and Jacobs took a step back. First-round safety Johnathan Abram's aggressiveness was used against him in his first healthy season. Taking Henry Ruggs first among all receivers in a deep class last April was a big risk that didn't pay off in Year 1. Selecting Clelin Ferrell at No. 4 overall in 2019 was a similarly big swing that's been fouled off so far. I like Mullen and 2020 first-round cornerback Damon Arnette more than most, but the Raiders' vision for many of their players has yet to be realized.
THE NEWBIES
Trent Baalke, Jaguars

Last seen losing a power struggle to Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco, Baalke's hire in Jacksonville was a surprise because he barely had a relationship with new coach Urban Meyer. It remains to be seen who is truly calling the shots.
Andrew Berry, Browns

Berry is somehow the sixth decision-maker to run the Browns since Jimmy Haslam bought the team in October of 2012. Berry's first draft pick, OT Jedrick Wills (10th overall in 2020), looks like a home run, and late-round pass catchers Harrison Bryant and Donovan Peoples-Jones have already provided value.
Nick Caserio, Texans

Caserio knew when he took the Texans job that they didn't have a pick in the first two rounds of this year's draft. That's partly why the team went quantity over quality in signing free agents, building depth on an otherwise-thin roster.
Joe Douglas, Jets

Hired right after the 2019 draft, Douglas has spent almost two years trying to dig out of the poor process that led to his hiring. While it's early, taking tackle Mekhi Becton at No. 11 overall could be a defining first pick by Douglas to kick off the start of a new era.
Scott Fitterer, Panthers

Hired in January after spending 20 years in Seattle, Fitterer is expected to assist coach Matt Rhule like John Schneider helps Pete Carroll without losing sight of who's the boss. Will the Seahawks' penchant for taking draft picks off the beaten path travel to Carolina?
Terry Fontenot, Falcons

The longtime Saints front office staffer was brought to Atlanta after a generally successful 13-year run by Thomas Dimitroff. Choosing fourth overall in the 2021 draft, Fontenot has a chance to call his shot by taking a quarterback with his first-ever draft pick, much like Dimitroff did with Matt Ryan in 2008.
Brad Holmes, Lions

Holmes arrives in Detroit after 18 years with the Rams. Like Chris Grier in Miami, he'll be asked to execute a near-complete teardown rebuilding project that will require time. Grier has Brian Flores as his partner; Holmes has Dan Campbell.
George Paton, Broncos

It's pronounced Peyton like Manning, not Patton like general. The first-year general manager by way of Minnesota is running the draft room with John Elway now not being a day-to-day presence at the Broncos facility.
Ron Rivera/Marty Hurney/Martin Mayhew, Football Team

This is one of the most confusing setups in the league, but Hurney and Mayhew made it clear after their hires in January that Rivera is in charge. The irony here is that Rivera's first draft in Washington, spearheaded by Kyle Smith, was terrific with Antonio Gibson and safety Kamren Curl adding to a no-brainer pick of Chase Young at No. 2 overall.




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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:06 pm

lol
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:10 pm

i was thinking about colberttomlinrooney drafts earlier today.....i will post later 8-)
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Post by Kodiak » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm

I think Tomlin is the weak link in player selection/development.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm

Kodiak wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I think Tomlin is the weak link in player selection/development.
Colbert has given Tomlin the pieces. There is ZERO doubt.
"We're all in strung out shape. But stay frosty, and alert."

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm
Kodiak wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I think Tomlin is the weak link in player selection/development.
Colbert has given Tomlin the pieces. There is ZERO doubt.
Lol :roll: :roll:
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Post by Jizz Mop » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:43 pm

Fuck Tomlin

stillthere
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Post by stillthere » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:50 pm

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm
Kodiak wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:12 pm
I think Tomlin is the weak link in player selection/development.
Colbert has given Tomlin the pieces. There is ZERO doubt.
Lol :roll: :roll:
So they didn't in the last 5 years have a
top5 qb
top3 wr
top3 rb
top5 ol

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:08 pm

These are the RoonCoTom drafts first 3 rds

2007 Timmons Woodley Spaeth
2008 Mendenhall Sweed Davis
2009 Hood Urbik Wallace Lewis
2010 Pouncey Worlids Sanders
2011 Heyward Gilbert Brown
2012 DeCastro Adams Spence
2013 Jones Bell Wheaton
2014 Shazier Tuitt Archer
2015 Dupree Golson Coates
2016 Burns Davis Hargrave
2017 Watt JJSS Sutton Connor
2018 Edmunds WashingtnRudolph Okorafor
2019 Bush Johnson Layne
2020 Fitzpatrick Claypool Highsmith

If we give these a rating system of 1 = better than solid 2 = solid 3 = less than solid

I think the 1st looks like this 11111222223333
Timmons Pouncey Heyward are clearly 1s Mendy and DD are 2s Hood and Jones should probably be 4s. Lol. Shazier and Dupree I will split the difference and say a net of a 1 and 2 Burns is a 3 Watt is a 1 Edmunds Bush Fitzpatrick I will split the difference and say a net of a 2s and 3. Imo thats not great 1st rd performance

The 2nds (and i will just count all as 2nds even some were 3rds) look like this. 11111222333333
Woodley Gilbert Bell JJSS Claypool look like 1s Tuitt Washington Johnson can get 2s and Sweed Urbik Worlids Adams Golson Davis are 3s. Again not great.

The 3rds are 11222223333333333. Hargrave and Connor are 1s Spaeth Wallace Sanders are 2s. Somewhere between Rudi Chuks Layne Highsmith and Wheaton are probably two more 2s and rest are 3s. Again not that good.

Another way to consider it is in 14yrs RoonCoTom have netted 12 better than solid picks 13 solid picks

For at total of 25 and considering you probably need to turnover something close 20 about twice every 14 yrs its pretty clear this team has been at least 4-5 players short of optimal for quite a while

Please dont talk to me about 4th rd and later successes. They are great. They count. But mostly they are players with issues that can fit nonetheless in the right situation.

If your team is blowing picks routinely in the top 100 and particularly in the top 32. You arent drafting well
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:09 pm

stillthere wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:50 pm
SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm


Colbert has given Tomlin the pieces. There is ZERO doubt.
Lol :roll: :roll:
So they didn't in the last 5 years have a
top5 qb
top3 wr
top3 rb
top5 ol
Lol....
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Post by Pabst » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:20 pm

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:08 pm
These are the RoonCoTom drafts first 3 rds

2007 Timmons Woodley Spaeth
2008 Mendenhall Sweed Davis
2009 Hood Urbik Wallace Lewis
2010 Pouncey Worlids Sanders
2011 Heyward Gilbert Brown
2012 DeCastro Adams Spence
2013 Jones Bell Wheaton
2014 Shazier Tuitt Archer
2015 Dupree Golson Coates
2016 Burns Davis Hargrave
2017 Watt JJSS Sutton Connor
2018 Edmunds WashingtnRudolph Okorafor
2019 Bush Johnson Layne
2020 Fitzpatrick Claypool Highsmith

If we give these a rating system of 1 = better than solid 2 = solid 3 = less than solid

I think the 1st looks like this 11111222223333
Timmons Pouncey Heyward are clearly 1s Mendy and DD are 2s Hood and Jones should probably be 4s. Lol. Shazier and Dupree I will split the difference and say a net of a 1 and 2 Burns is a 3 Watt is a 1 Edmunds Bush Fitzpatrick I will split the difference and say a net of a 2s and 3. Imo thats not great 1st rd performance

The 2nds (and i will just count all as 2nds even some were 3rds) look like this. 11111222333333
Woodley Gilbert Bell JJSS Claypool look like 1s Tuitt Washington Johnson can get 2s and Sweed Urbik Worlids Adams Golson Davis are 3s. Again not great.

The 3rds are 11222223333333333. Hargrave and Connor are 1s Spaeth Wallace Sanders are 2s. Somewhere between Rudi Chuks Layne Highsmith and Wheaton are probably two more 2s and rest are 3s. Again not that good.

Another way to consider it is in 14yrs RoonCoTom have netted 12 better than solid picks 13 solid picks

For at total of 25 and considering you probably need to turnover something close 20 about twice every 14 yrs its pretty clear this team has been at least 4-5 players short of optimal for quite a while

Please dont talk to me about 4th rd and later successes. They are great. They count. But mostly they are players with issues that can fit nonetheless in the right situation.

If your team is blowing picks routinely in the top 100 and particularly in the top 32. You arent drafting well

This is all well and good, but could you please compare this to other teams/GMs.

BTW calling David DeCastro a "2" reeks of recency bias. He's a 3x All Pro and 6x Pro Bowler. That's a fantastic pick at #24.

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:28 pm

Pabst wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:20 pm


This is all well and good, but could you please compare this to other teams/GMs.

BTW calling David DeCastro a "2" reeks of recency bias. He's a 3x All Pro and 6x Pro Bowler. That's a fantastic pick at #24.
1) Other teams/GMs dont matter. Your job is to improve your team. Alvin Kamara on the Saints is an amazing player. On the Steelers he would be injured most of the time.

2) DeCastro has been a solid player. He hasnt been a game changer. He is not a 1
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Post by Jizz Mop » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:41 pm

Troll of trolls

STD in his mind feels he could do a better job than Colbert

And in his honor:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 pm

Jizz Mop wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:41 pm
Troll of trolls

STD in his mind feels he could do a better job than Colbert

And in his honor:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel very confident B2B FC and Perch could draft better than RoonCoTom.

Why do I feel that way ?? They consistently do it every year. Several different ways often.

As far as myself goes. I think I would do better than many in the NFL. Take a look at my Raiders draft in the SF mock and tell me that isnt absolutely fucking stellar ?? Lol
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Professor Half Wit
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Post by Professor Half Wit » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:03 pm

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 pm
Jizz Mop wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:41 pm
Troll of trolls

STD in his mind feels he could do a better job than Colbert

And in his honor:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel very confident B2B FC and Perch could draft better than RoonCoTom.

Why do I feel that way ?? They consistently do it every year. Several different ways often.

As far as myself goes. I think I would do better than many in the NFL. Take a look at my Raiders draft in the SF mock and tell me that isnt absolutely fucking stellar ?? Lol
I'm confident you'd suck the skin off their dicks. Is that comment against board rules?
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Scunge
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Post by Scunge » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:06 pm

You have to take into account not just Pro Bowls and All Pros but games started, and yes top to bottom you take into account every draft pick and you even take into account undrafted free agents. Many of the undrafted free agents were players that came this close to be drafted and there is a very competitive market in the hours after the draft concludes in signing these players. All of that counts.

That is how you determine if a GM is successful over the long haul, over the course of his career.

Also, what was the average selection, where were they slotted over the course of Colbert's career? Was Colbert picking in the top 10? Top 15? Top 20? That is huge and also points to how well Colbert has drafted over the course of his career. That can't be denied.

Colbert has had 20 first round picks and the average was pick 21? And some of those first round picks he had to move up, trade picks to get higher up, he did this with Troy Poalmalu, Holmes and Bush. With Troy we went from 27 to 16, with Holmes from 31 to 25, with Bush from 18 to 10. So, before doing any of those trades, Colbert was starting out at pick 23 on average over the course of those 20 drafts.

Imagine how difficult it is to find quality 2nd and 3rd round picks when you are picking in the bottom quarter of the draft each and every year. That has to be factored in, Colbert has played with a massive handicap for two decades.

Other GMs can draft a Bosa brother in the top 3 to get their edge rusher, Colbert finally gets on the clock and is able to get his edge rusher TJ Watt with the 30th pick.

Houston's GM can get JJ Watt with the 11th pick, but Colbert has to wait all the way until the 31st pick before he can select Cam Heyward.

Imagine what Colbert could do if he routinely was picking in the top 5, or top 10 each year like some of these dumbass GMs?

No, I applaud Colbert and his accomplishments but at the same time I do not like that it seems like he has one foot out the door. I do not like this year to year contract thing, if you are thinking of retirement or can't make a commitment more than year to year, to me it is time for him to go. I hope they have a contingency plan in place, that they have somebody in mind to replace him. My bet is Rick Reiprish will be that guy.

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Steelperch
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Post by Steelperch » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am

Some of you guys didn’t appreciate Colbert enough the last two decades.

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Post by RemoAZ » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:54 am

I don't think you appreciate Colbert enough just looking at the first 3 rounds. He's been very good overall and we desperately need for him to have another year like last year. Ideally he comes up with three gems on offense to start right away. If he adds a couple guys that contribute on defense as well, it will make a huge impact on this team's chance to compete this season.
Howard Griffith had to resort to chop-blocking him during the 1997 AFC Championship Game. An incredulous Kirkland asked Griffith, “Why do you have to use cheap tactics like chop-blocking?” Griffith replied “Why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?”

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Post by El Kabong » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:53 am

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:28 pm
Pabst wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:20 pm


This is all well and good, but could you please compare this to other teams/GMs.

BTW calling David DeCastro a "2" reeks of recency bias. He's a 3x All Pro and 6x Pro Bowler. That's a fantastic pick at #24.
1) Other teams/GMs dont matter. Your job is to improve your team.
STD: That batter sucks! He's only hitting .400! He gets out 6 out of 10 times at bat! Get rid of this bum!

Devil's Advocate: How does he do compared to other batters?

STD: Other batters don't matter! His job is to get hits!

Sometimes the task in question, like drafting, is inherently difficult such that one isn't going to have success all the time. In those cases, seeing how someone is doing compared to others is instructive.

I echo the suggestion that you do the same analysis you did for Colbert's drafts for all the other GM's who've been in the league over the same time.
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:56 am

^^^^^ bullshit

RoonCoTom really could and should be notably better drafting for the Steelers
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stillthere
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Post by stillthere » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:18 am

Steelperch wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am
Some of you guys didn’t appreciate Colbert enough the last two decades.
This shit right here.

Jizz Mop
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Post by Jizz Mop » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:40 pm

Dear Steelers Management / FO:

My name is STD. Well not actually but that’s my handle on a Steelers fan page. Lol. I’m a huge, long time fan and am a student of the game, both the X’s and O’s and also of personnel/the draft.

I’d like to throw my hat in the ring for GM if and when Kevin Colbert steps down. Although I’ve never played organized sports and spend most of my time day trading from Amish Country, I feel the multiple mock drafts I’ve completed online over the years for various NFL teams qualifies me as a top notch replacement for Colbert.

I invite you to look at my draft for the Raiders this year by visiting Steeler Fury on the internet. I’m sure you’ll be impressed by my selection of David Moore in the 3rd round. I know it’s crazy to get a letter like this since there’s a lot of mock draft enthusiasts out there....but I think in an interview I could illustrate why I should be considered when Colbert steps down.

Respectfully yours,
STD, lifelong Steeler fan and mock draft guru

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Post by PennyBacker » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:56 pm

Colbert has served an important role in keeping the Steelers roster loaded with talented players for the past 2 decades. 1 losing season (2003) for the team since he began working in Pittsburgh (2000), and it was more than made up for the following year by drafting Ben Roethlisberger and going 15-1.

The year to year contract doesn't bother me. The Steelers are historically known for being successful at the NFL Draft. As mentioned before, there is no shortage of draft experts involved around the team.

KC does not exactly have anything to prove at this point, so should he decide he's ready to step down then there should be no shortage of people thinking they could fill his position as chief talent evaluator. Even still, with all the turnover there is in the NFL year to year, it's remarkable (in my opinion) how well he has done to keep the Steelers competitive each season.

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Post by beerbrother » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:07 pm

Damn that's funny Jizz.
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Post by stinger8 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:48 pm

Steelperch wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am
Some of you guys didn’t appreciate Colbert enough the last two decades.
I think Colbert has earned his pay check during the draft portion of the job. No significant issues. Where he has been abysmal is decisions related to over paying mediocre talent, and very few prescient free agent signings. Basically not anticipating probable developments and being prepared in advance. Walking from a player a year too soon versus a couple of years too late. That part of his job he has been deficient in, by and large. I recognize the title of the thread is Colbert ranked #2 in league AT DRAFTING, just sayin.

stillthere
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Post by stillthere » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:28 pm

stinger8 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:48 pm
Steelperch wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am
Some of you guys didn’t appreciate Colbert enough the last two decades.
I think Colbert has earned his pay check during the draft portion of the job. No significant issues. Where he has been abysmal is decisions related to over paying mediocre talent, and very few prescient free agent signings. Basically not anticipating probable developments and being prepared in advance. Walking from a player a year too soon versus a couple of years too late. That part of his job he has been deficient in, by and large. I recognize the title of the thread is Colbert ranked #2 in league AT DRAFTING, just sayin.
Isn't part of that also the fact that the Steelers spend up to the cap almost every year? The team usually is around 10million under the cap number for emergency signings due to injuries or suspensions? When was the last time he had 40 or 50 million dollars in free cap space? I am interested in what he may be able to do in 2022 and 2023 when Pittsburgh has a large amount of free cap space. 2022 they are projected to have 100 million in cap space - I know Watt is getting around a quarter of that but when did the team have 75 million in cap space last? 2023 they will be looking at around 150 - 175 million after Watt's new deal.

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:29 pm

PennyBacker wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:56 pm
Colbert has served an important role in keeping the Steelers roster loaded with talented players for the past 2 decades
:roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Jobu
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Post by Jobu » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:46 pm

stinger8 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:48 pm
Steelperch wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:27 am
Some of you guys didn’t appreciate Colbert enough the last two decades.
I think Colbert has earned his pay check during the draft portion of the job. No significant issues. Where he has been abysmal is decisions related to over paying mediocre talent, and very few prescient free agent signings. Basically not anticipating probable developments and being prepared in advance. Walking from a player a year too soon versus a couple of years too late. That part of his job he has been deficient in, by and large. I recognize the title of the thread is Colbert ranked #2 in league AT DRAFTING, just sayin.
But is that actually his call? While I’m sure he has a say in it, I would think it comes down to players Tomlin wants and ultimately if A2 decides he can and will pay them.

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Post by COR-TEN » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:00 pm

beerbrother wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:07 pm
Damn that's funny Jizz.
Agreed. Hilarious. :lol:

zeke5123
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Post by zeke5123 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:25 pm

How does one separate drafting from development?

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