SteelerFury Combined Forum

El Kabong wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:12 am

Kodiak wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:15 am

steelmann58 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:40 am

Wait till Ben leaves we see what the genius does

And here's the thing about 2019 - won 3 or 4 with Mason, and then defenses had enough film and adjusted. The offense went from awful to invisible. Then in comes Duck, and they win like 4 games until defenses get enough film and adjust. The offense went from awful back to invisible.

Now those two are terrible. But the idea that Tomlin is going to squeeze out 8 wins with the typical NFL mediocre QB is a pipe dream. Unless he does something novel where he keeps changing QB's after 4 or 5 games.

This has been a pattern for several years now, with and without Ben, and on both sides of the ball. The team peaks/plateaus in November and then that's it. No answers.

But Tomlin's had a number of different OC's and DC's. Don't coordinators make adjustments throughout the season on their own without specific instruction from their HC? Or are you saying Tomlin specifically tells his coordinators not to make adjustments?

I will say this about Tomlin.

He is 0-1 at picking OC's.

He inherited Arians I believe along with LeBeau. He was given Haley, according to most reports. Randy who was on the staff pre Tomlin like Butler. Who somehow are the 3 amigos from coaching at Arkansas State or Memphis. But back to the point Randy was his first shot and he missed.

I hope Canada is a win and the Steelers get back to dominating.

Plus it will bring him to a non losing record of hiring Offensive Coordinators 1-1.

stillthere wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 am

I will say this about Tomlin.

He is 0-1 at picking OC's.

Here's the thing: If after 14 years Tomlin just signed a 3 year extension and STILL doesn't have final say on his staff, then what does that really say about him?

I think he could have vetoed Haley if he wanted to, especially if Ben didn't like the guy. He probably was saddled with Butler, but he kicked him to the curb 3+ years ago and has been de-facto DC since. More than a few HC's also serve as OC or DC, even if they still have someone below them with the job title.

Kodiak wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:45 am

stillthere wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 am

I will say this about Tomlin.

He is 0-1 at picking OC's.

Here's the thing: If after 14 years Tomlin just signed a 3 year extension and STILL doesn't have final say on his staff, then what does that really say about him?

I think he could have vetoed Haley if he wanted to, especially if Ben didn't like the guy. He probably was saddled with Butler, but he kicked him to the curb 3+ years ago and has been de-facto DC since. More than a few HC's also serve as OC or DC, even if they still have someone below them with the job title.

Possibly that he likes being the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers enough to put up with a meddling owner. Unless the memoir is ever released, we don't really know how much say Tomlin has had over which coordinator hires.

My point: might say more about Rooney than Tomlin. Or at least as much.

Was pretty much about to say that, Lit. Takes two to tango.

Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:50 pm

My point: might say more about Rooney than Tomlin. Or at least as much.

Maybe. My point is coaches aren't subject to franchise tags or need be concerned about career-ending injuries. We're told all the time 20+ teams would hire Tomlin in an instant. So if the guy aspired to more than just collecting a paycheck, why would he stay with an owner that ties his hands?

And Tomlin himself has talked about race in the NFL, particularly in the coaching circles. So, again, why would he stay with an owner that gives him less power/control than most other coaches have? Tomlin was asked why he hasn't hired a black coordinator - so WTF would you work for a guy that doesn't let you make your own hiring decisions? Unless, maybe, that's not the case at all and it's just another bullshit excuse.


Perhaps what you meant to say is Tomlin and Rooney have established mediocrity as the new standard. That's would probably be a fair and accurate statement.

Kodiak wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:44 am

El Kabong wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:12 am

But Tomlin's had a number of different OC's and DC's. Don't coordinators make adjustments throughout the season on their own without specific instruction from their HC?

Ahhhh, yes, the potted plant defense.

There is room in between "Tomlin's coordinators have jobs too" and Tomlin being a potted plant.

You've said the reason the Steelers collapse at the end of seasons is because Tomlin is lazy and doesn't make any changes to what the team is doing. I'm asking if all of Tomlin's coordinators are also lazy or if Tomlin himself actively tells them not to make any changes because that seems like something that would be in the job description of a coordinator and it is puzzling indeed that none of them have been able to do that.

Or the reason for late season collapses hasn't been laziness and refusal to change to begin with.

My disgust with this franchise is enormous and I hope Ben walks after this season and wins a ring with Tampa Bay.

Listening to a podcast and somebody stated Tomlin has a better record than Belichick when a backup QB has to start. Then went on to say all of the backups under Tomlin that have started more than 1 game have at least a .500 record.

That is actually fairly impressive. I have to take the word of the person making the claim but have no reason to believe the person was just making up stats that can be pretty easily fact checked.

Had to laugh when I saw someone say today that Mike Tomlin is going to draft his son Dino in 2 years from Maryland.

stillthere wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:49 pm

Had to laugh when I saw someone say today that Mike Tomlin is going to draft his son Dino in 2 years from Maryland.

I don’t find that funny

Just adds to the horror

stillthere wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:49 pm

Had to laugh when I saw someone say today that Mike Tomlin is going to draft his son Dino in 2 years from Maryland.

And Tua’s little brother...

Jobu wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:05 pm

stillthere wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:49 pm

Had to laugh when I saw someone say today that Mike Tomlin is going to draft his son Dino in 2 years from Maryland.

And Tua’s little brother...

franco>madden wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:19 pm

Put some peanut butter & jelly on this franchise


cuz we are toast.

Guess I never truly appreciated just how crucial Dan was to this team until he was gone. (Should've listened to Swiss and his assessment of Duece and his leaving Ben twisting in the wind a decade ago.)
Actually Rooney Mara would be far better choice if we must have a family member in charge. But look at you, little Art2, showing everybody that Nutting isn't the only clueless sports owner in town! Running down another storied-history team by coasting on the reputation of years gone by ...
Congrats, Dunce. Is this once-elite franchise now the glossier, higher-rent cousin: the Pirates 2?

Yep on Dan being crucial.

In the entire history of the Steelers back to 1933...this team never won squat without Dan Rooney leading the way (even though he turned it over to his son in the 2003, he was still running things during the Super Bowl years...I have no doubt of it).

Also, at the risk of sounding like the 50-something white guy that I am, there is no question race is playing a factor here...no way in this current environment is Art II letting go of a black coach who’s “never had a losing season”.

El Kabong wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:20 pm

You've said the reason the Steelers collapse at the end of seasons is because Tomlin is lazy and doesn't make any changes to what the team is doing. I'm asking if all of Tomlin's coordinators are also lazy or if Tomlin himself actively tells them not to make any changes because that seems like something that would be in the job description of a coordinator and it is puzzling indeed that none of them have been able to do that.

Or the reason for late season collapses hasn't been laziness and refusal to change to begin with.

I'm sure his coordinators are lazy, too. But he has, in fact, been running the defense for the past 3+ years.

And, no, that's not an excuse either. Harbaugh fired his OC in like Week 10 and went on to win a SB. Meanwhile, we see this team repeatedly outcoached in the playoffs.

Every year, the apologies get more and more ridiculous and borderline idiotic. "Well, it's his coordinators fault". But who do the coordinators answer to? "Well, he doesn't have authority to hire and fire his coordinators". I call bullshit on that. What he's put on tape the past 10 years has been very mediocre.

Pabst, that is correct: he’s 6’3”” and 200lbs and could beat my ass... and D3 football is a lot of fun to watch...

Kodiak wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:21 pm

El Kabong wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:20 pm

You've said the reason the Steelers collapse at the end of seasons is because Tomlin is lazy and doesn't make any changes to what the team is doing. I'm asking if all of Tomlin's coordinators are also lazy or if Tomlin himself actively tells them not to make any changes because that seems like something that would be in the job description of a coordinator and it is puzzling indeed that none of them have been able to do that.

Or the reason for late season collapses hasn't been laziness and refusal to change to begin with.

I'm sure his coordinators are lazy, too. But he has, in fact, been running the defense for the past 3+ years.

And, no, that's not an excuse either. Harbaugh fired his OC in like Week 10 and went on to win a SB. Meanwhile, we see this team repeatedly outcoached in the playoffs.

Every year, the apologies get more and more ridiculous and borderline idiotic. "Well, it's his coordinators fault". But who do the coordinators answer to? "Well, he doesn't have authority to hire and fire his coordinators". I call bullshit on that. What he's put on tape the past 10 years has been very mediocre.

I mean you haven't proven that laziness is in fact the problem. I just find it hard to believe that the coordinators themselves wouldn't be making their own adjustments without having to be told. You think coordinators need to be specifically told by the HC to make adjustments.

jeemie wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:42 pm

franco>madden wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:19 pm

Put some peanut butter & jelly on this franchise


cuz we are toast.

Guess I never truly appreciated just how crucial Dan was to this team until he was gone. (Should've listened to Swiss and his assessment of Duece and his leaving Ben twisting in the wind a decade ago.)
Actually Rooney Mara would be far better choice if we must have a family member in charge. But look at you, little Art2, showing everybody that Nutting isn't the only clueless sports owner in town! Running down another storied-history team by coasting on the reputation of years gone by ...
Congrats, Dunce. Is this once-elite franchise now the glossier, higher-rent cousin: the Pirates 2?

Yep on Dan being crucial.

In the entire history of the Steelers back to 1933...this team never won squat without Dan Rooney leading the way (even though he turned it over to his son in the 2003, he was still running things during the Super Bowl years...I have no doubt of it).

Also, at the risk of sounding like the 50-something white guy that I am, there is no question race is playing a factor here...no way in this current environment is Art II letting go of a black coach who’s “never had a losing season”.

From another 50-something white guy, you are spot on with the bolded. Art II has nowhere near the gonads to let Tomlin go.

JackLambert58 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:19 pm

jeemie wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:42 pm

franco>madden wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:19 pm

Put some peanut butter & jelly on this franchise


cuz we are toast.

Guess I never truly appreciated just how crucial Dan was to this team until he was gone. (Should've listened to Swiss and his assessment of Duece and his leaving Ben twisting in the wind a decade ago.)
Actually Rooney Mara would be far better choice if we must have a family member in charge. But look at you, little Art2, showing everybody that Nutting isn't the only clueless sports owner in town! Running down another storied-history team by coasting on the reputation of years gone by ...
Congrats, Dunce. Is this once-elite franchise now the glossier, higher-rent cousin: the Pirates 2?

Yep on Dan being crucial.

In the entire history of the Steelers back to 1933...this team never won squat without Dan Rooney leading the way (even though he turned it over to his son in the 2003, he was still running things during the Super Bowl years...I have no doubt of it).

Also, at the risk of sounding like the 50-something white guy that I am, there is no question race is playing a factor here...no way in this current environment is Art II letting go of a black coach who’s “never had a losing season”.

From another 50-something white guy, you are spot on with the bolded. Art II has nowhere near the gonads to let Tomlin go.

Yeah, well, as a mid 40s white guy, I fucking hate this line of thinking. You both have it ALL wrong. Art HAS MORE SOCIAL CAPITAL THAN ANY OTHER OWNER to let Tomlin go. He's not letting him go because he doesn't want to. Art is not scared of woke media or twitter mobs. HE LIKES TOMLIN. Take this idea out back, shoot it, and then burn the body.

I am confident that race played a role in hiring Tomlin. However, I seriously doubt that race has anything to do with him keeping his job. I really think his record speaks for itself. Until Tomlin starts racking up losing seasons there really isn't a "need" to change the HC.

Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:56 pm

JackLambert58 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:19 pm

jeemie wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:42 pm

Yep on Dan being crucial.

In the entire history of the Steelers back to 1933...this team never won squat without Dan Rooney leading the way (even though he turned it over to his son in the 2003, he was still running things during the Super Bowl years...I have no doubt of it).

Also, at the risk of sounding like the 50-something white guy that I am, there is no question race is playing a factor here...no way in this current environment is Art II letting go of a black coach who’s “never had a losing season”.

From another 50-something white guy, you are spot on with the bolded. Art II has nowhere near the gonads to let Tomlin go.

Yeah, well, as a mid 40s white guy, I fucking hate this line of thinking. You both have it ALL wrong. Art HAS MORE SOCIAL CAPITAL THAN ANY OTHER OWNER to let Tomlin go. He's not letting him go because he doesn't want to. Art is not scared of woke media or twitter mobs. HE LIKES TOMLIN. Take this idea out back, shoot it, and then burn the body.

I've always agreed with this line of thinking. Tomlin's been here for 15 years. Other black coaches have been hired and fired in that time. Rooney has the standing to fire Tomlin. I agree, Rooney likes Tomlin and thinks he's a good coach who he can still win with, and that's why he's still here. If Rooney ever feels differently, he'll fire Tomlin.