Harris / Etienne / Williams

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Jizz Mop
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Harris / Etienne / Williams

Post by Jizz Mop » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:46 pm

Just for arguments sake, assume the Steelers are picking a RB at 24.

All 3 are on the board when the Steelers are on the clock at 24.

You take ___________ because ___________.



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Post by K_C_ » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:52 pm

I'm not an Etienne fan, so it would be between Harris and Williams for me.

Harris is a little older and more mature, so if the Steelers believe they're in "win now" mode for Ben's final year, they'll likely take Harris.

If they are building for the future, I like Williams more. I like his power running style more than Harris and both seem to be really good receivers.

I would personally take Williams.
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Post by tbsteel » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:03 am

Of those three, I think the best overall player in Harris.

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Post by Ice » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:10 am

I'd take Williams. Youngest, least mileage, complete back, runs heavy, breaks a ton of tackles, probably has the most improvement potential of the three.
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Post by Scunge » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:23 am

Well, I think we will be very, very fortunate to have 1 of the 3 left at pick 24. I do think that Williams is universally thought of as the 3rd best prospect behind Etienne and Harris and I do think that is who we will end up with at pick 24.

The thing that scares me about Harris is this sort of bias of, hey he is like another L Bell, let us just grab him and it will be like old times. Sometimes that gets you into trouble, sort of reaching for a player because he reminds you of a former player.

Harris to me is not the pure runner that Williams is and when you get right down to it, that is what this teams desperately needs right now, a talented pure runner.

Williams to me is that RB who will get 7-8 yards on a 2nd and 5, and on short yardage will be like money in the bank. I have seen him be more physical than the other two, I have seen the stiff arms, the running through arm tackles, slipping tackles, dishing out punishment to the tackler at times. You look at him and he has a really thick neck, a very compact frame. I keep saying this but Javonte Williams is like those classic former early 2nd round RBs that end up being the best in their draft class. The Nick Chubbs, the Derrick Henrys, the Dalvin Cooks.

Anyway, when you look at the draft assume the top 3 spots a QB is taken. But from pick 4 to 23, those 20 spots I think Etienne and Harris will be taken and be off the board when we come up for 24.

There are many teams that have a young stud QB and what is the best way to get them to play better? Having a stud RB can really make their job a lot easier, ask Baker Mayfield about how much Nick Chubb makes his life easier.

Arizona is at 16, yes they signed Conner, but Etienne or Harris would be great for Kyler Murray.

Miami has a 2nd 1st round pick at 18, wouldn't Tua play better with an Etienne or Harris?

The Jets 2nd 1st round pick at 23, if they take Zack Wilson at pick 2 wouldn't it make sense to partner him with an Etienne or Harris? They can address a tackle or whatever at the top of round 2, pick 34.

The Steelers, if they really want a 1st round RB, they may even have to move up some to get one of these 3, that is a possibility.

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Post by Jizz Mop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:33 am

Scunge, full disclosure

I don’t expect all 3 to be there

This was more of an analysis as to which player Fury feels would be the best pick, assuming that all 3 are still there

Unlikely I know

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Post by Jobu » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:39 am

I think if given their choice, the Steelers will pick Harris, but Williams is my choice and I think the best back in this draft.
Etienne...oh hell no!
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Post by RemoAZ » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:51 am

I think if all three are there, it makes even more sense to trade back and add picks.
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 am

Trade down and draft Stevenson......the perfect Steeler RB in this draft.....and we are gonna need more than one RB ......so getting extra picks is crucial
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Post by Smashmouth21 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 am

Just say no to RB in the first round. Just say no to slow Harris. We already have Benny Snell football. I’d rather have the other UNC runner. So no thanks Javonte. If you put a gun to my head and made me pick RB it’s Etienne no doubt.

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Post by Mick » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 am

Of the three i would take Williams (i wouldn’t consider the others in the top 50), but i wouldn’t want to go RB there.

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Post by stillthere » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 am

RemoAZ wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:51 am
I think if all three are there, it makes even more sense to trade back and add picks.
This

But gun to my head then Williams is the guy.

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Post by Jobu » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:25 am

The thing with trading back is that someone not only wants to trade up, but they must want to trade up with you.
Add in that the Steelers aren’t likely to trade out of the first because they value that 5th year option...doesn’t leave a lot of candidates for a trade back.
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Post by cop1211 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:36 am

Ice wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:10 am
I'd take Williams. Youngest, least mileage, complete back, runs heavy, breaks a ton of tackles, probably has the most improvement potential of the three.
This, But I hope they dont go RB in the first.

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Post by StillerDownSouth » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:48 am

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 am
Trade down and draft Stevenson......the perfect Steeler RB in this draft.....and we are gonna need more than one RB ......so getting extra picks is crucial
I’d second this, Stevenson is a stud, even if we grab a RB in 1st round, wouldn’t mind getting this cat later as well. Tough hard nosed runner with some juice.

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:01 am

Jobu wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:25 am
The thing with trading back is that someone not only wants to trade up, but they must want to trade up with you.
Add in that the Steelers aren’t likely to trade out of the first because they value that 5th year option...doesn’t leave a lot of candidates for a trade back.
All the more reason to trade down and draft Stevenson......the Steelers will have put big mileage on him in 4 years....
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Post by anpsteel » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 pm

Javonte Williams is the pick.

Harris and Etienne picked up a lot of yards due to the offense they were in. In addition, Etienne picked up huge chunks of his production while the D was in passing subs- relying upon his speed.

Bama would tend to pound the rock a little more, so I'm not as worried about Harris at the NFL level- but I'm still taking Williams, given the choice

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Post by Thrillsseeker » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 pm

As mentioned above if all three are there, I trade down.

I doubt all three are there.

I’d pick Williams or Harris with a slight edge to williams.


My question is if we pick a RB and Don’t have a choice between the top 3, then what?

I like Gainwell. I like Stevenson. I like them both over Sermon.


If the “top 3” are gone who’s your pick?
Last edited by Thrillsseeker on Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Scunge » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:59 pm

Gainwell, man, I wouldn't touch him until round 4, same with Michael Carter.

Honestly, aren't both of them sort of like Anthony McFarland? Shouldn't they go in round 4 as well?

At NC's pro day, Carter measured under 5'8" and his 10 yard split, vertical jump and long jump were worse than Javonte Williams.

To me Gainwell and Carter are complementary backs, clearly #2 RBs but you still need that #1 RB to do the dirty work, to make the running game work.

You draft Williams and you have his complement in McFarland, you have Batman and Robin, life is good. But if you just draft Gainwell or Carter and pair him with McFarland? Well you have two Robins and no Batman.

Sermon reminds me too much of James Conner. So, yeah, move on from Conner and then draft somebody who will play similar to Conner?

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Post by K_C_ » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:53 pm

Scunge wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:59 pm
You draft Williams and you have his complement in McFarland, you have Batman and Robin, life is good. But if you just draft Gainwell or Carter and pair him with McFarland? Well you have two Robins and no Batman.
McFarland had one of the least impressive rookie seasons in a long time.

Not sure I saw the dude break a single tackle and I'm pretty sure Ronnie the Limo Driver could tackle him one-on-one.

McFarland runs like a pussy.

....and I'll add that Sermon seems far more patient and instinctive than James Conner. Also Conner's other huge issue was injuries and I wonder how much of that had to do with Conner's cancer treatments. I'm guessing a pretty good amount.
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Post by Ice » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:58 pm

Gotta agree on McFarland to this point. I was expecting better, and even in the few games where the running game was humming along pretty decently, really just nothing. After his big game against tOSU a couple years back, my expectations were high, but like I think it was Perch said at the time, he was hit or miss in college, and just a complete miss so far in the pros.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:09 pm

Gainwell is like 5 times better than McFarland.

I agree that the Steelers need a pure runner for some situational football... but those guys are available throughout. If you pay a premium price, it had better be for a guy that is good on all 3 downs. I'd rather have a 3-down back who needs to be replaced by a complementary player on 3rd and short than a pure runner who has to come off the field on 3rd and 7. The RBs who are good in the pass game go at a higher slot than the runners. See the 2020 draft for examples.

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Post by Scunge » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:50 pm

Well, I know when we play the Cleveland Browns I am much more concerned with how much damage Nick Chubbs is going to do running the football than I am with Hunt catching the ball.

I am not going to dismiss McFarland yet, last year the offensive line was a shitshow, and as I have been saying this offseason, the design and scheme of our running game has been totally fucked up for a couple years and trending downwards for a number of reasons. Ben not wanting to line up under center, more shotgun, less and less chances for O-line to explode out of a 3 point stance, no fullback usage, etc.

I think the McFarland/Gainwell/Carter comparisons are fair. Take all 3 of their college tape and they all look the same.

I was always calling for a RB to be able to catch the ball and be a threat in the passing game, after years and years of starters that were weak in that area, Bettis, Parker, etc. But now? Now it is like many want to emphasize that to the point where it is more important than actually being able to do job #1, carry the damn football and run with impunity and with bad intentions!!!!

As the Joker once said, "This town needs an enema!"

This team needs a pure runner, somebody like Javonte Williams to bring back balance to this offense. I fear what we will get instead, is a cute, flashy player, somebody better at catching the ball and the running game doesn't improve.

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Post by Ice » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:02 pm

So, it's not so much intangibles that Williams brings to the table as it is yinzer rock pounding midi-chlorians?
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Post by Scunge » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:40 pm

No, I think Williams is the best pure runner in the draft but let us not just pigeon hole him as just a runner, his receiving ability is just fine.

Travis Etienne played in 55 college games (including bowl games, etc)

He had 102 catches for 1,155 yards, 11.3 avg and 8 TDs

Najee Harris played in 51 games.

Harris had 80 catches for 781 yards, a 9.8 avg and 11 TDs.

Javonte Williams played in 34 college games.

Williams had 50 catches for 539 yards, 10.8 avg and 4 TDs.

Williams played one less year, only 3 years, if he played a 4th year and you projected out what he may have done, wouldn't he have ended up with over 80 catches too, just like Harris??

Also, that 10.8 avg per catch for his career is a full yard better than Harris. Williams averaged 12.2 yards per catch his final season at NC and of the 3 backs only Etienne beat that with 12.3 yards per catch for a season high in his career, also coming last year. Did Williams have a future first round QB throwing him the football??

In terms of returning to yinzer rock pounding, please, that just shows how brainwashed some of you have become. You have bought into this pass happy, shot gun offense, outlaw the 3 point stance, bullshit running game.

We have to return to a more traditional running game with a real stud who knows how to run. Williams can do that but he also can catch the ball and do damage as a receiver.

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Post by Jobu » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:49 pm

Did Williams have a future first round QB throwing him the football??
I’m gonna go with yes.
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Post by Scunge » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:32 am

Really Jobu? Sam Howell probably a year from now will measure under 6'1" and maybe run a 4.8? Where are those elite traits worth spending a first round pick on?

He looks to me to be a 2nd round QB at best, maybe even a 3rd rounder.

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:02 am

Stevenson is a better option than any of those 3.

Hes a little slower and less shifty but had a notably higher yards after contact avg.

He has more power than any of those three.

And he will be there in the 2nd. Thats important because it will allow the Steelers to trade down and still get a dominating impact player
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Post by K_C_ » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:09 am

Jobu wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:49 pm
Did Williams have a future first round QB throwing him the football??
I’m gonna go with yes.
Um ...no.
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Post by steelmann58 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:44 am

We need a bell cow and maybe it Stevenson if they think 3rd down back can be McFarland

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