The Steelers are now officially the........

[jmacinwbp]

Jmac,

I'm not claiming radical wholesale change. I'm simply saying losing led to something that was a needed piece to the Lombardi puzzle.

A franchise can get stuck in sports. Happens quite often.

Texas Rangers are a good recent example. They are the local team here. After finally getting a roster capable of getting to the world series which they did in 2010 & 2011 while historically blowing it in game 6 in 2011...

Every year after thru 2016 or so they kept retooling and gutting the farm system to keep competing which they did but never had a roster again nearly as good as those 2 world series teams, teams that were good but not good enough.

So, after the farm system cupboard was bare and after stumbling around some they finally faced reality and embraced a rebuild.

Also of note, the owner a few years ago decided he really really really wanted to get the franchise their first championship and accelerated the rebuild and spent like he meant it. They won it last year.

More human behavior...

Now that the owner got his ring the spending this off-season was cheap while losing a few pieces including 1 extremely high impact starting pitcher in that post season run.

Also, you can't have your HC believing there is almost nothing he can do to lose his job especially if he already has some hardware. Not a good way to get the most out of people.

I'm not advocating a full rebuild for the Steelers. I'm just sayin'

Thanks for the clarification Havoc. With more context, not much I can disagree with. If I were to try to classify what your describing, my definition would be more general, along the lines of using the term failure instead of losing.

Teams can fail miserably in some aspects of their overall play, like say offensive output, and winning in the playoffs; yet still win more than they lose. Given enough of the same type of failure, eventually the person managing through the failure, and those putting the investments into the players producing the failure are going to hit their limits, and will be forced to move towards uncharacteristic changes.

Tomlin's Steelers are reacting like they've hit that inflection point where it seems even a blind deuce understands that enough is enough, and the floodgates have been opened for unexpected, after unexpected change, that most objective people have known was necessary for a long time.

I give you:

- Firing a coordinator in mid season, for the first time in over 80 years. Everyone knew it was justified, but I'd bet less than 5% of fans, or people that cover the team actually expected it to happen a few weeks before the fraud was terminated.

- Benching your hand picked 1st round QB pick, who had a winning record for the season even though he was following your basic overall gameplan to a T, and after said QB quickly returned from injury.

- Even though he's by far your most polished option at the position, getting rid of a malcontent WR1 wannabe, who rarely helps your team win, but consistent finds ways to kill the teams mojo to succeed.

- In less than a week, completely transforming your QB room by adding not one, but two individuals who have potential to actually create explosive pass plays that score enough points to win games against a team with a good offense.

- Take off the board the top FA with the highest salary in a position of weakness for over six seasons.

- Give up on your hand picked 1st round QB, who had a winning record even with many subpar performances, after only two years of the subpar play; when everyone knows the standard life cycle for this type of pick is at least three, and typically four years, if the team is winning more games then they lose.

- To fill the void from dealing the malcontent, be rumored to be going hard at actively trying to trade for one of the top WRs that could be on the market.

These type of radical changes almost always go one of two ways. Either they wildly succeed, or incredibly implode. There is rarely a middle ground after an organization goes soo much out of character.

From my perspective just about everyone on the forum should be happy with how the off season has thus far played out. The team is either going to finally be competitive again in the AFC, which a few of us positive thinkers are looking forward to, or the failure will be so spectacular that even the power of NHALS won't be able to overcome it, something the fans that can't see anything but Tomlin hate, seem to constantly hope for, but always have Lucy pull the football away for a spectacular fall come season's end.

I can see the second scenario sans the Lucy fake finally having a chance of happening, not because I don't believe in how much adversity NHALS can overcome to continue on, but instead because of the overwhelming historical precedence showing one of the two previously mentioned outcomes almost always happen with so much uncharacteristic change happening so quickly.

Havoc, so I guess after understanding the context behind why you think losing can be good for a team, I'm agreeing with the premise.. at least I think I am?

[CKSteeler]

Tomlin's Steelers are reacting like they've hit that inflection point where it seems even a blind deuce understands that enough is enough, and the floodgates have been opened for unexpected, after unexpected change, that most objective people have known was necessary for a long time.

...

These type of radical changes almost always go one of two ways. Either they wildly succeed, or incredibly implode. There is rarely a middle ground after an organization goes soo much out of character.

From my perspective just about everyone on the forum should be happy with how the off season has thus far played out. The team is either going to finally be competitive again in the AFC, which a few of us positive thinkers are looking forward to, or the failure will be so spectacular that even the power of NHALS won't be able to overcome it, something the fans that can't see anything but Tomlin hate, seem to constantly hope for, but always have Lucy pull the football away for a spectacular fall come season's end.

I can see the second scenario sans the Lucy fake finally having a chance of happening, not because I don't believe in how much adversity NHALS can overcome to continue on, but instead because of the overwhelming historical precedence showing one of the two previously mentioned outcomes almost always happen with so much uncharacteristic change happening so quickly.

Havoc, so I guess after understanding the context behind why you think losing can be good for a team, I'm agreeing with the premise.. at least I think I am?

Oh, they realize change is needed. The changes they made, however, are up for debate. Adding Russell Wilson and Justin Fields in my humble opinion isn't going to make them contenders, and it's kind of sad that they think that it will.

It shows that the current leadership is as deeply flawed and incapable of fixing the problem as many of us thought.

They don't even trust themselves to take another swing at a first round QB. The Chiefs were a QB away, and what did they do? They trusted their draft process and swung for the fences with Mahomes and then developed him into the best QB in the league. They had a plan. Identified the talent, moved up to get the talent, developed the talent while patiently waiting a year for him to get his feet under him. The Steelers swung, missed, and then retreated to going after two veteran retreads of dubious ability.

Mike Tomlin was so scared of having a failed season that he abandoned the plan for Pickett and threw him into the fire after a few rough games.

So yea, the Steelers understand there is a problem. They just don't really know how to fix it and are just swinging wildly hoping something sticks.

Braintrust now thinks they have two #1 QB's. My strong suspicion is that we'll see they have none by season's end.

[jmacinwbp]

"Oh, they realize change is needed. The changes they made, however, are up for debate"

There's no doubt about that statement CK. Indeed there is room for debate on either side of this one. As many have said, it's going to be a very entertaining season, whichever way these moves end up going. It's kind of an odd feeling to hear everyone talking about the Steelers as the headline in almost every day of the off-season. Even though I'd hate it because of how negative it can be for the organization, I think Eisen had it spot on with his Dulac interview, what a show it would be to have Tomlin's current Steelers agree to Hard knocks 2024. Think that would be a ratings monster for sure.

[SteelerDayTrader]

This thread

[Stlcrtn1974]

Jmac,

I'm not claiming radical wholesale change. I'm simply saying losing led to something that was a needed piece to the Lombardi puzzle.

A franchise can get stuck in sports. Happens quite often.

Texas Rangers are a good recent example. They are the local team here. After finally getting a roster capable of getting to the world series which they did in 2010 & 2011 while historically blowing it in game 6 in 2011...

Every year after thru 2016 or so they kept retooling and gutting the farm system to keep competing which they did but never had a roster again nearly as good as those 2 world series teams, teams that were good but not good enough.

So, after the farm system cupboard was bare and after stumbling around some they finally faced reality and embraced a rebuild.

Also of note, the owner a few years ago decided he really really really wanted to get the franchise their first championship and accelerated the rebuild and spent like he meant it. They won it last year.

More human behavior...

Now that the owner got his ring the spending this off-season was cheap while losing a few pieces including 1 extremely high impact starting pitcher in that post season run.

Also, you can't have your HC believing there is almost nothing he can do to lose his job especially if he already has some hardware. Not a good way to get the most out of people.

I'm not advocating a full rebuild for the Steelers. I'm just sayin'

Thanks for the clarification Havoc. With more context, not much I can disagree with. If I were to try to classify what your describing, my definition would be more general, along the lines of using the term failure instead of losing.

Teams can fail miserably in some aspects of their overall play, like say offensive output, and winning in the playoffs; yet still win more than they lose. Given enough of the same type of failure, eventually the person managing through the failure, and those putting the investments into the players producing the failure are going to hit their limits, and will be forced to move towards uncharacteristic changes.

Tomlin's Steelers are reacting like they've hit that inflection point where it seems even a blind deuce understands that enough is enough, and the floodgates have been opened for unexpected, after unexpected change, that most objective people have known was necessary for a long time.

I give you:

- Firing a coordinator in mid season, for the first time in over 80 years. Everyone knew it was justified, but I'd bet less than 5% of fans, or people that cover the team actually expected it to happen a few weeks before the fraud was terminated.

- Benching your hand picked 1st round QB pick, who had a winning record for the season even though he was following your basic overall gameplan to a T, and after said QB quickly returned from injury.

- Even though he's by far your most polished option at the position, getting rid of a malcontent WR1 wannabe, who rarely helps your team win, but consistent finds ways to kill the teams mojo to succeed.

- In less than a week, completely transforming your QB room by adding not one, but two individuals who have potential to actually create explosive pass plays that score enough points to win games against a team with a good offense.

- Take off the board the top FA with the highest salary in a position of weakness for over six seasons.

- Give up on your hand picked 1st round QB, who had a winning record even with many subpar performances, after only two years of the subpar play; when everyone knows the standard life cycle for this type of pick is at least three, and typically four years, if the team is winning more games then they lose.

- To fill the void from dealing the malcontent, be rumored to be going hard at actively trying to trade for one of the top WRs that could be on the market.

These type of radical changes almost always go one of two ways. Either they wildly succeed, or incredibly implode. There is rarely a middle ground after an organization goes soo much out of character.

From my perspective just about everyone on the forum should be happy with how the off season has thus far played out. The team is either going to finally be competitive again in the AFC, which a few of us positive thinkers are looking forward to, or the failure will be so spectacular that even the power of NHALS won't be able to overcome it, something the fans that can't see anything but Tomlin hate, seem to constantly hope for, but always have Lucy pull the football away for a spectacular fall come season's end.

I can see the second scenario sans the Lucy fake finally having a chance of happening, not because I don't believe in how much adversity NHALS can overcome to continue on, but instead because of the overwhelming historical precedence showing one of the two previously mentioned outcomes almost always happen with so much uncharacteristic change happening so quickly.

Havoc, so I guess after understanding the context behind why you think losing can be good for a team, I'm agreeing with the premise.. at least I think I am?

Grasping at straws, they don't know what else to do. For years we hear the "Steeler way", this sure as shit isn’t that at all. We are watching pure and unadulterated desperation here.

[Ice]

If you don't have the next QB in the building, and you don't have a pick (or the inclination, in a flawed QB draft) to go grab one, you do what you can to get talent in at the position. Looks like that's what they did, to me, and at a bargain price. The two we've got right now are better bad options than a lot of what was trotted out in the post-Brad, pre-Ben era, under Noll or Cowher.

[Havoc]

Jmac,

I'm not claiming radical wholesale change. I'm simply saying losing led to something that was a needed piece to the Lombardi puzzle.

A franchise can get stuck in sports. Happens quite often.

Texas Rangers are a good recent example. They are the local team here. After finally getting a roster capable of getting to the world series which they did in 2010 & 2011 while historically blowing it in game 6 in 2011...

Every year after thru 2016 or so they kept retooling and gutting the farm system to keep competing which they did but never had a roster again nearly as good as those 2 world series teams, teams that were good but not good enough.

So, after the farm system cupboard was bare and after stumbling around some they finally faced reality and embraced a rebuild.

Also of note, the owner a few years ago decided he really really really wanted to get the franchise their first championship and accelerated the rebuild and spent like he meant it. They won it last year.

More human behavior...

Now that the owner got his ring the spending this off-season was cheap while losing a few pieces including 1 extremely high impact starting pitcher in that post season run.

Also, you can't have your HC believing there is almost nothing he can do to lose his job especially if he already has some hardware. Not a good way to get the most out of people.

I'm not advocating a full rebuild for the Steelers. I'm just sayin'

Thanks for the clarification Havoc. With more context, not much I can disagree with. If I were to try to classify what your describing, my definition would be more general, along the lines of using the term failure instead of losing.

Teams can fail miserably in some aspects of their overall play, like say offensive output, and winning in the playoffs; yet still win more than they lose. Given enough of the same type of failure, eventually the person managing through the failure, and those putting the investments into the players producing the failure are going to hit their limits, and will be forced to move towards uncharacteristic changes.

Tomlin's Steelers are reacting like they've hit that inflection point where it seems even a blind deuce understands that enough is enough, and the floodgates have been opened for unexpected, after unexpected change, that most objective people have known was necessary for a long time.

I give you:

- Firing a coordinator in mid season, for the first time in over 80 years. Everyone knew it was justified, but I'd bet less than 5% of fans, or people that cover the team actually expected it to happen a few weeks before the fraud was terminated.

- Benching your hand picked 1st round QB pick, who had a winning record for the season even though he was following your basic overall gameplan to a T, and after said QB quickly returned from injury.

- Even though he's by far your most polished option at the position, getting rid of a malcontent WR1 wannabe, who rarely helps your team win, but consistent finds ways to kill the teams mojo to succeed.

- In less than a week, completely transforming your QB room by adding not one, but two individuals who have potential to actually create explosive pass plays that score enough points to win games against a team with a good offense.

- Take off the board the top FA with the highest salary in a position of weakness for over six seasons.

- Give up on your hand picked 1st round QB, who had a winning record even with many subpar performances, after only two years of the subpar play; when everyone knows the standard life cycle for this type of pick is at least three, and typically four years, if the team is winning more games then they lose.

- To fill the void from dealing the malcontent, be rumored to be going hard at actively trying to trade for one of the top WRs that could be on the market.

These type of radical changes almost always go one of two ways. Either they wildly succeed, or incredibly implode. There is rarely a middle ground after an organization goes soo much out of character.

From my perspective just about everyone on the forum should be happy with how the off season has thus far played out. The team is either going to finally be competitive again in the AFC, which a few of us positive thinkers are looking forward to, or the failure will be so spectacular that even the power of NHALS won't be able to overcome it, something the fans that can't see anything but Tomlin hate, seem to constantly hope for, but always have Lucy pull the football away for a spectacular fall come season's end.

I can see the second scenario sans the Lucy fake finally having a chance of happening, not because I don't believe in how much adversity NHALS can overcome to continue on, but instead because of the overwhelming historical precedence showing one of the two previously mentioned outcomes almost always happen with so much uncharacteristic change happening so quickly.

Havoc, so I guess after understanding the context behind why you think losing can be good for a team, I'm agreeing with the premise.. at least I think I am?

We are good, brother