Patricia and Edelman Report The Obvious

[CKSteeler]

“You knew exactly what they were doing,. And they still do what they did. They still do the same goddamn shit when I was playing Tomlin’s defense. I’m like, ‘We still have linebackers covering the three slot? Every time we play Steelers, I have at least nine catches. You would think that they would change it. But no, they do what they do.”

...

“They’re well-coached,” Edelman said.

...

“They don’t make mistakes,” he said. “They don’t lose a lot of games.”

“And then we beat them in the playoffs.”

https://open.spotify.com/show/2XCaxqeyDJF9VrNW0ViPo3

Obviously.

I've long argued Tomlin is a lazy coach. There have been reports in recent years that he is well known for not putting in the same hours as his peers. When we get a glimpse into his game planning, it's that he watches the last "quarter" of film on a team. The last 4 games.

Players have commented on how the defense has been simplified over the years so guys make fewer mistakes. Which sounds OK-ish on paper, but isn't even really true because we end up living with massive defensive breakdowns at the end of every season due to poor communication...supposedly. We get late season collapses and playoff blowouts as later in the year every team knows the Steelers tendencies and seemingly does a better job of breaking their own mold (better self-scouting).

Add to this a complete lack of interest or curiosity towards analytics.

Tomlin is sort of the worst of both worlds. He's a micromanager who also happens to be lazy. When Cowher finally broke through in 2005, he admitted that it was in large part to not interfering with his coordinators. He let them fucking coordinate.

I know how 2006 went, but we'd probably be talking about a Steelers dynasty if Cowher didn't retire instead of what could have been.

[.Kodiak]

It's been beaten to death. Tomlin makes hay against other mediocre coaches who don't have the luxury of a "standard" of simply competing for a playoff slot.

It's a proven approach to win 9-10 games. It's also proven grossly inadequate to competing in the playoffs.

Tomlin is not putting in the effort - and turning over every rock - to win playoff games because he doesn't have to. He sabotages the "ceiling" of his players in that pursuit, and then gets praised when they get embarrassed in the playoffs for "overachieving" with the talent his system hamstrings.

[LakecrestSteeler]

“You knew exactly what they were doing,. And they still do what they did. They still do the same goddamn shit when I was playing Tomlin’s defense. I’m like, ‘We still have linebackers covering the three slot? Every time we play Steelers, I have at least nine catches. You would think that they would change it. But no, they do what they do.”

...

“They’re well-coached,” Edelman said.

...

“They don’t make mistakes,” he said. “They don’t lose a lot of games.”

“And then we beat them in the playoffs.”

https://open.spotify.com/show/2XCaxqeyDJF9VrNW0ViPo3

Obviously.

I've long argued Tomlin is a lazy coach. There have been reports in recent years that he is well known for not putting in the same hours as his peers. When we get a glimpse into his game planning, it's that he watches the last "quarter" of film on a team. The last 4 games.

Players have commented on how the defense has been simplified over the years so guys make fewer mistakes. Which sounds OK-ish on paper, but isn't even really true because we end up living with massive defensive breakdowns at the end of every season due to poor communication...supposedly. We get late season collapses and playoff blowouts as later in the year every team knows the Steelers tendencies and seemingly does a better job of breaking their own mold (better self-scouting).

Add to this a complete lack of interest or curiosity towards analytics.

Tomlin is sort of the worst of both worlds. He's a micromanager who also happens to be lazy. When Cowher finally broke through in 2005, he admitted that it was in large part to not interfering with his coordinators. He let them fucking coordinate.

I know how 2006 went, but we'd probably be talking about a Steelers dynasty if Cowher didn't retire instead of what could have been.

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.


They just are not working on the right things because Tomlin’s philosophy is flawed. If he had better offense and defensive philosophies and adjust his risk setting from 99 to say 20, they would begin to work on different things on all three sides of the ball. His philosophy and risk aversion bleeds into everything they do.

I think they work pretty hard, just on the wrong things.

[CKSteeler]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.


They just are not working on the right things because Tomlin’s philosophy is flawed. If he had better offense and defensive philosophies and adjust his risk setting from 99 to say 20, they would begin to work on different things on all three sides of the ball. His philosophy and risk aversion bleeds into everything they do.

I think they work pretty hard, just on the wrong things.

When beat reporters are calling you out for not putting in the hours and calling it a quiet secret and you trot out the same shit every week to include in January, it's more than just about taking risks. The guy is complacent as shit. You can call it intellectual laziness if you prefer that, but it's laziness.

[.Kodiak]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.

You're falling into the lazy, presumptuous assumption that Tomlin has less talent than other teams.

Entirely possible to be lazy and undisciplined and beat teams with less talent and/or poorly coached. Tomlin intuitively understands this, which is why his "game of attrition" approach waiting for playmakers like TJ to win Q4 works....in the regular season....a little more than half the time.

Absolutely nothing about the past 6 playoff blowout losses says this team works hard and is well-prepared. That's way beyond "statistical outlier" at this point. It would take a conscious effort for the WORST teams in the league to be as humiliated as we have been...six straight times in the playoffs.

[.Kodiak]

When beat reporters are calling you out for not putting in the hours and calling it a quiet secret and you trot out the same shit every week to include in January, it's more than just about taking risks. The guy is complacent as shit. You can call it intellectual laziness if you prefer that, but it's laziness.

Tomlin got his SB and money, almost instantly. He never has - and never will - "burn the midnight oil", sleeping in his office in pursuit of championships....because he doesn't have to.

"Competing" for a 6/7 seed is enough. He doesn't work harder to achieve more....because he doesn't have to. He will continue to get outworked by coaches who want more, and for whom more is demanded.

[955876]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.


They just are not working on the right things because Tomlin’s philosophy is flawed. If he had better offense and defensive philosophies and adjust his risk setting from 99 to say 20, they would begin to work on different things on all three sides of the ball. His philosophy and risk aversion bleeds into everything they do.

I think they work pretty hard, just on the wrong things.

When beat reporters are calling you out for not putting in the hours and calling it a quiet secret and you trot out the same shit every week to include in January, it's more than just about taking risks. The guy is complacent as shit. You can call it intellectual laziness if you prefer that, but it's laziness.

100%.

To say Jibbs isn’t lazy is asinine.

Doing the same shit week in and week out is the definition of lazy.

This team has become both unwatchable and unlikable.

Dunce and his lazy lapdog Jibba Jabber have ruined the franchise.

[.Kodiak]

100%.

To say Jibbs isn’t lazy is asinine.

Doing the same shit week in and week out is the definition of lazy.

But he has 1 million excuses why that approach - which just so happens to coincide with less effort - is the optimal approach.

Except "I like my coaches to be overworked" is something no successful manager has said, ever.

[Gonzo]

"It's one thing to lose X, O's against a really talented offense, but where the hell is the fight?" Herbstreit added. "This is the Pittsburgh Steelers. There's nothing. They're just going through the motions."

- Kirk Herbstreit live on air during the game

[DumlinBumlinStumlin]

When beat reporters are calling you out for not putting in the hours and calling it a quiet secret and you trot out the same shit every week to include in January, it's more than just about taking risks. The guy is complacent as shit. You can call it intellectual laziness if you prefer that, but it's laziness.

Tomlin got his SB and money, almost instantly. He never has - and never will - "burn the midnight oil", sleeping in his office in pursuit of championships....because he doesn't have to.

"Competing" for a 6/7 seed is enough. He doesn't work harder to achieve more....because he doesn't have to. He will continue to get outworked by coaches who want more, and for whom more is demanded.

Protected Potted Plant!!

[955876]

Except "I like my coaches to be overworked" is something no successful manager has said, ever.

Translation: the fewer coaches that can question me, my authority, my power, my final say the better.

Jibbs doesn’t want a top notch staff. Jibbs wants a few yes men to do his bidding.

He’s so fucking dumb he doesn’t realize having great assistants coming up under him would (1) make the team better and (2) make himself look better given he’d have a coaching tree.

He should be embarrassed that in 18 years he hasn’t developed a single assistant. Not one.

Beyond pathetic.

[langer]

"They're just going through the motions."

I think what he meant by that is that they were standing around watching shit happen in front of them rather than engaging and being present.

I don't want to watch that game again but I saw someone, 26 I think, or 6, literally watch the runner run right in front of them and not do anything. It was surprising to see.

Zero effort. When we have the 45 year old D lineman being the one that we notice as working, shit's broken.

Art II is an idiot. Is Austin at least responsible for preparation? Or don't the prepare.

As Lee Flowers said about another team, they're Paper Champions.

[Deebo]

"They're just going through the motions."

I think what he meant by that is that they were standing around watching shit happen in front of them rather than engaging and being present.

I don't want to watch that game again but I saw someone, 26 I think, or 6, literally watch the runner run right in front of them and not do anything. It was surprising to see.

Zero effort. When we have the 45 year old D lineman being the one that we notice as working, shit's broken.

Art II is an idiot. Is Austin at least responsible for preparation? Or don't the prepare.

As Lee Flowers said about another team, they're Paper Champions.

That was a MNF game against the Bucs where the Steelers punched that team in the mouth. This was prior to TB finally winning a SB

[franco32]

Art 2 and the whole organization should feel shame about what Edelman said. We all know it, but to be publicly called out and laughed at should make you angry. Instead, Art 2 just walks around like a dunce saying "he's disappointed" and they will work harder.

I can't prove Tomlin is lazy. Is he sleeping on the couch at Southside like Joe Gibbs used to do? Probably not. But, some people just aren't good at their jobs. They put in a ton of hours but only because they really don't know what they are doing. Tomlin may fall into that category. He could be working hard and working dumb at the same time. He just doesn't strike me as a bright innovative person in any way.

[LakecrestSteeler]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.

You're falling into the lazy, presumptuous assumption that Tomlin has less talent than other teams.

Entirely possible to be lazy and undisciplined and beat teams with less talent and/or poorly coached. Tomlin intuitively understands this, which is why his "game of attrition" approach waiting for playmakers like TJ to win Q4 works....in the regular season....a little more than half the time.

Absolutely nothing about the past 6 playoff blowout losses says this team works hard and is well-prepared. That's way beyond "statistical outlier" at this point. It would take a conscious effort for the WORST teams in the league to be as humiliated as we have been...six straight times in the playoffs.

I actually think the getting your team fired up and running around tweaking everyone with their individualized special potion of motivation takes more work than adjusting one’s philosophy and then just practicing the plays over and over.

I get your point though. There are many checkpoints for being lazy.

I just think it all feeds from his pillars of philosophy more than work ethic. This guy out works the next guy. This guy spends 80 hours a week etc etc. I am always skeptical of those statements.

[LakecrestSteeler]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.


They just are not working on the right things because Tomlin’s philosophy is flawed. If he had better offense and defensive philosophies and adjust his risk setting from 99 to say 20, they would begin to work on different things on all three sides of the ball. His philosophy and risk aversion bleeds into everything they do.

I think they work pretty hard, just on the wrong things.

When beat reporters are calling you out for not putting in the hours and calling it a quiet secret and you trot out the same shit every week to include in January, it's more than just about taking risks. The guy is complacent as shit. You can call it intellectual laziness if you prefer that, but it's laziness.

Perhaps. I didn’t just mean taking risks. Tomlin or Rooney have to have pillars of philosophy that need to be changed that are feeding every other decision. Maybe they don’t spend enough time on task.

Short of something showing a comprehensive time study between two teams and coaching sets I’d be skeptical.


But it does get the feeling of mailing it in around Thanksgiving….so maybe you are right.

[955876]

I actually think the getting your team fired up and running around tweaking everyone with their individualized special potion of motivation takes more work than adjusting one’s philosophy and then just practicing the plays over and over.

Total nonsense. Getting a team fired up is surface level rah rah bullshit.

It something done in the moment and takes little prior deep planning.

Even less with that “individualized special potion of motivation”.

Bullshit artist are masters of bullshit. Jibbs could sit down with your or I and likely get deep into the weeds of conversation fairly quickly.

And we’d probably like him.

Bullshit artist and those blessed with the “gift of gab” have zero problem talking and relating to people. It’s what they do.

It also serves to run cover for his many coaching flaws.

[LakecrestSteeler]

Except "I like my coaches to be overworked" is something no successful manager has said, ever.

Translation: the fewer coaches that can question me, my authority, my power, my final say the better.

Jibbs doesn’t want a top notch staff. Jibbs wants a few yes men to do his bidding.

He’s so fucking dumb he doesn’t realize having great assistants coming up under him would (1) make the team better and (2) make himself look better given he’d have a coaching tree.

He should be embarrassed that in 18 years he hasn’t developed a single assistant. Not one.

Beyond pathetic.

Agree 100% with this. It is legendarily stupid. He and Rooney should be embarrassed!

They are supposed to be ambassadors of the NFL, not just the Steelers. They should be working to raise the tide of the Steelers and the NFL so the product keeps getting better. As you said they are damn near unwatchable!

[955876]

Their brand of football is stale, boring, and more often than not,, ineffective.


And yet, we do what we do. Roll the same shit out time and time and time again. So much so countless players from other teams are now openly calling out our stale schemes saying how we run the same shit.

That is LAZY.

Do what we do is slick cover for not wanting to put the effort in each week.

Easier to “do what we do” while telling TJ he has to have a big game. While telling JPJ he needs to have some dog in him this week, while telling the QB to not force it and make any mistakes,

Our plan is sound. You players need to execute better.

All the while making that execution more difficult because the other teams knows exactly what’s coming most of the time.

Lazy.

[Deebo]

Terrible argument with lazy. If the team was lazy they’d get blown-out against most teams. If the coaching staff was lazy they’d get blown-out and lose the team etc etc.. to everyone in the league.

You're falling into the lazy, presumptuous assumption that Tomlin has less talent than other teams.

Entirely possible to be lazy and undisciplined and beat teams with less talent and/or poorly coached. Tomlin intuitively understands this, which is why his "game of attrition" approach waiting for playmakers like TJ to win Q4 works....in the regular season....a little more than half the time.

Absolutely nothing about the past 6 playoff blowout losses says this team works hard and is well-prepared. That's way beyond "statistical outlier" at this point. It would take a conscious effort for the WORST teams in the league to be as humiliated as we have been...six straight times in the playoffs.

I actually think the getting your team fired up and running around tweaking everyone with their individualized special potion of motivation takes more work than adjusting one’s philosophy and then just practicing the plays over and over.

I can't disagree with this statement any more and any psychologist would have the same take.

Emotion is the lowest denominator of being a human. It's why babies cry- they can't articulate why they're hungry/tired/etc. It takes years of brain development to articulate what you are communicating.

If your theory is correct then Charles Manson would have been a great coach. He could get people to do what he wanted just based on emotion and his recipients' emotion.

[Gonzo]

well per the last 6 games at least he doesnt even "motivate" anyone

"going through the motions"
and the #1 WR that could give a shit
and DB that didnt seem to want to tackle anyone

the last myth starts to fall away -- he is not a strategist, not a tactician, he has no quality assistant coaches, not a game manager, does not develop young players well -- and now doesnt even motivate them. He is an ass-slap man who tries to get everyone paid. And he steadfastly holds on to a philosophy that maintains .500 ball and gets most folks paid and spews bullshit to hide the fact that thats what they are doing.

this is why -- we do what we do and Rooneys support of it is so galling to fans ... because it obvious contradictory (to ultimate success) nonsense and the tape shows its all nonsense. So, again ... they are either conmen laughing to the bank or dipshits so full of hubris that they refuse to Ever look at their underlying philosophy as the Problem.

[Gonzo]

I know also I am repeating myself . but every time a Rooney or Tomlin opens their mouth it’s infuriating

[Thrillsseeker]

Who called out Tomlin for not putting in the hours/work?

[LakecrestSteeler]

You're falling into the lazy, presumptuous assumption that Tomlin has less talent than other teams.

Entirely possible to be lazy and undisciplined and beat teams with less talent and/or poorly coached. Tomlin intuitively understands this, which is why his "game of attrition" approach waiting for playmakers like TJ to win Q4 works....in the regular season....a little more than half the time.

Absolutely nothing about the past 6 playoff blowout losses says this team works hard and is well-prepared. That's way beyond "statistical outlier" at this point. It would take a conscious effort for the WORST teams in the league to be as humiliated as we have been...six straight times in the playoffs.

I actually think the getting your team fired up and running around tweaking everyone with their individualized special potion of motivation takes more work than adjusting one’s philosophy and then just practicing the plays over and over.

I can't disagree with this statement any more and any psychologist would have the same take.

Emotion is the lowest denominator of being a human. It's why babies cry- they can't articulate why they're hungry/tired/etc. It takes years of brain development to articulate what you are communicating.

If your theory is correct then Charles Manson would have been a great coach. He could get people to do what he wanted just based on emotion and his recipients' emotion.

Kodiak has fair points. Additionally, when you are good at something it becomes easy. Lazy is a dynamically changing state as you are trained, develop behaviors, grow older, develop motor and mental skills for certain activities etc....So doing the exact same thing in year one might have been max processing power, and then doing the same thing in year 3 might take only 20% processing power...if you are not adjusting, and optimizing your bandwidth, one could argue you are being lazy.

[Baltostiller]

I stand by my comment of a few years ago.

"Mike Tomlin is a great leader of men, a good motivator but a shit tactician and a game day imbecile."

Although I may change great leader to good...

[Deebo]

I stand by my comment of a few years ago.

"Mike Tomlin is a great leader of men, a good motivator but a shit tactician and a game day imbecile."

Although I may change great leader to good...

And I take issue that he's a good motivator.

Do people who are motivators have their direct reports' efforts questioned in nationally televised games?

I challenge anyone to tell me what exactly Mike Tomlin does well.

Call him Chauncey Gardner or the Emperor has no clothes. It's the same thing...a potted fucking plant who loves cameras and attention.

[Baltostiller]

I stand by my comment of a few years ago.

"Mike Tomlin is a great leader of men, a good motivator but a shit tactician and a game day imbecile."

Although I may change great leader to good...

And I take issue that he's a good motivator.

Do people who are motivators have their direct reports' efforts questioned in nationally televised games?

I challenge anyone to tell me what exactly Mike Tomlin does well.

Call him Chauncey Gardner or the Emperor has no clothes. It's the same thing...a potted fucking plant who loves cameras and attention.

Point taken but I will stand by the "shit tactician and gameday imbecile" part.

[Gonzo]

I stand by my comment of a few years ago.

"Mike Tomlin is a great leader of men, a good motivator but a shit tactician and a game day imbecile."

Although I may change great leader to good...

And I take issue that he's a good motivator.

Do people who are motivators have their direct reports' efforts questioned in nationally televised games?

I challenge anyone to tell me what exactly Mike Tomlin does well.

Call him Chauncey Gardner or the Emperor has no clothes. It's the same thing...a potted fucking plant who loves cameras and attention.

I have called him Chauncey Gardener before

"As long as the roots are not severed, all is well"
"I like to watch"

[langer]

Chauncey could walk on water.

[Gonzo]

True . Chance is certainly being buoyed throughout his life by some other force … maybe luck
Or it’s possible to walk on water figuratively if you have no idea you can’t