Penguin's offseason 2022 edition

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fractalsteel
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Penguin's offseason 2022 edition

Post by fractalsteel » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:54 pm

I can't remember a time when the franchise could lose two cornerstones to the roster.
Letang and Malkin.

Here is an article from the NHL on today's front page:
https://www.nhl.com/news/evgeni-malkin- ... -334774416

It has to be coming to a head because free agency starts in 2 weeks.

There were rumors on Pensburgh that the Pens started out with offers of $5 million a year to both Malkin and Letang. If that is true then that is a major insult. A WTF kind of act.

Another rumor I have read is that Malkin wants to start at $10 million a year.



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Pabst
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Post by Pabst » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:43 pm

I was honestly thinking about starting this thread earlier in the week, and it was because I had seen the same rumors about Geno and Letang.

Might be a sacrilege to say this, but here goes.....I'd rather pick up JT Miller or Vinny Trochek at $6m or $7m per year than Malkin at $9m. The fact that both are home-grown Pittsburgh guys might soften the blow a bit.

Letang has been great the past 2 seasons, but man.....he's 35. How much longer can he keep it up?

Have also heard that Casey Desmith likely isn't coming back. Which is fine.


Zucker will be an interesting one to watch.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 pm

Swapping Desmith for the Flower is the rumor... not bad at a friendly deal.

The cost of not paying Malking isn't just measured by replacing him with Trochek, it's the cost of him lining up with the Caps next year, which is all but assured if they don't sign him. I'd say Tampa another possibility, but unlikely with the salary cap. Either way, he's going to torment you.

However, the flip side is: if those two guys don't want to give something to make it happen, then there's nothing you can do.
"We get another week and that’s special because none of us are promised tomorrow" --Benjamin Todd Roethlisberger, Sr.

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Post by fractalsteel » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:44 pm

I'm about the Pens realizing a rebuild is here. About getting younger and I too would take Trochek at 7million/season over Malkin at what he probably wants. And 71 is my all time favorite hockey player and that goes back to the days in the late 60's watching Orr in person.

To me Letang is a must sign. Simply, there is no one in the Pens universe that can fill his shoes.

Malkin in DC would suck groundhog balls. I can't see Tampa in play for him. What if Bergevin retires, would the Bruins make a pitch for Malkin?

I think Flower is a longshot but wouldn't mind seeing him make an encore at the bucket.

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Post by Pabst » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:45 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 pm
Swapping Desmith for the Flower is the rumor... not bad at a friendly deal.

The cost of not paying Malking isn't just measured by replacing him with Trochek, it's the cost of him lining up with the Caps next year, which is all but assured if they don't sign him. I'd say Tampa another possibility, but unlikely with the salary cap. Either way, he's going to torment you.

However, the flip side is: if those two guys don't want to give something to make it happen, then there's nothing you can do.

Tampa is going to need to move a few guys before they could entertain the idea.

I get your point about Malkin possibly signing with an eastern conference rival (NYR being a possibility), but I just don't see it with Washington. How does Washington sign Malkin and stay cap compliant? They currently have under $9m in space without a single goaltender under contract. Not to mention, the Caps roster is pretty dang old (Only 4 skaters in their regular lineup are under age 30).

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Post by Pabst » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:48 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:44 pm
What if Bergevin retires, would the Bruins make a pitch for Malkin?
Boston is in pretty bad shape with the cap as well. Also, Bergevin got shit canned by Montreal last fall (I know you meant Bergeron).

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:37 pm

Pabst wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:45 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:47 pm
Swapping Desmith for the Flower is the rumor... not bad at a friendly deal.

The cost of not paying Malkin isn't just measured by replacing him with Trochek, it's the cost of him lining up with the Caps next year, which is all but assured if they don't sign him. I'd say Tampa another possibility, but unlikely with the salary cap. Either way, he's going to torment you.

However, the flip side is: if those two guys don't want to give something to make it happen, then there's nothing you can do.

Tampa is going to need to move a few guys before they could entertain the idea.

I get your point about Malkin possibly signing with an eastern conference rival (NYR being a possibility), but I just don't see it with Washington. How does Washington sign Malkin and stay cap compliant? They currently have under $9m in space without a single goaltender under contract. Not to mention, the Caps roster is pretty dang old (Only 4 skaters in their regular lineup are under age 30).
Do you think he might take less to play with the Russians for one last Cup push? I do. Salary caps are fungible... somebody can figure out a way if they want it to happen. I also think salary caps are a shield to give teams or players something to say for why they couldn't sign a player/with a team.
"We get another week and that’s special because none of us are promised tomorrow" --Benjamin Todd Roethlisberger, Sr.

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Post by Pabst » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:28 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:37 pm
Do you think he might take less to play with the Russians for one last Cup push? I do. Salary caps are fungible... somebody can figure out a way if they want it to happen. I also think salary caps are a shield to give teams or players something to say for why they couldn't sign a player/with a team.
No, and I'm honestly not really picking up what you're putting down here.....

The NHL cap is (far) more rigid than the NFL's. Tampa scuttled it by burying Kucherov in IR in 2021, and that's only at play if they expect Wilson to miss most of next season. There's no restructures/extensions/out years to manipulate a player's cap hit. If Washington wants to clear space, they have to move guys. Here's the problem: Their bottom 6 isn't very good, the D sucks beyond Carlson and Orlov, and they quite literally have no one in net.

Will Malkin take a paycut to play with Ovie and Kuznetsov? Maybe.....but I'd be floored if he took $5m, which is probably all Washington can afford.


This might be the homer in me talking, but I think Washington's window is closed. All of their top guys (save Wilson) are past their prime, their goaltending is non-existent, and their pipeline is bone dry. To top it off, they are locked into a bunch of long term deals. To me, the Caps are the team that could soon resemble Chicago & Detroit of the past few seasons rather than the Pens.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:47 pm

Yeah, the more I look into it, the Caps guys talking about it are wishful thinkers. They are suggesting putting Backstrom on LTIR and using his money to pay Malkin.
"We get another week and that’s special because none of us are promised tomorrow" --Benjamin Todd Roethlisberger, Sr.

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Post by MWS71 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:31 pm

I really don't see the point of the Trocheck talk at all.

1. He's been a point per game guy twice in his career
2. I don't think his 29 and 30 year old seasons will be better than Malkin's 36 and 37 year seasons
3. He'd need term to sign here so halfway through his contract we're right back where we started, with a second line center that's old and expensive (but not nearly as good).

I'm hopeful that they can figure it out with both 58 and 71. I think Letang $8MMx4 and Malkin $7MMx3 is fair. To me those numbers are better than Dumo at 4+, Pettersson at 4+, Carter at 3+, Zucker at 5+, and McGinn 2.75. Lose two or three of them and all of a sudden the cap situation isn't so dire.

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Post by Pabst » Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:01 pm

MWS71 wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:31 pm
I really don't see the point of the Trocheck talk at all.

1. He's been a point per game guy twice in his career
2. I don't think his 29 and 30 year old seasons will be better than Malkin's 36 and 37 year seasons
3. He'd need term to sign here so halfway through his contract we're right back where we started, with a second line center that's old and expensive (but not nearly as good).

I'm hopeful that they can figure it out with both 58 and 71. I think Letang $8MMx4 and Malkin $7MMx3 is fair. To me those numbers are better than Dumo at 4+, Pettersson at 4+, Carter at 3+, Zucker at 5+, and McGinn 2.75. Lose two or three of them and all of a sudden the cap situation isn't so dire.

I would absolutely re-sign Letang and Malkin for those terms. Problem is that all reports are saying both want quite a bit more than that. You wouldn't be signing Trocheck to replace Geno's production one-for-one. Trocheck can probably be signed for something in the $5-6m range. That frees up space to grab someone like Valeri Nichushkin or Andrew Copp. If Malkin and Letang both walk, then you can suddenly find yourself in the market for Johnny Gaudreau or Filip Forsberg.


The issue with the Pens isn't the cap - they can afford to bring back both if they wanted to. The issue is lack of young talent.

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Post by SteelPro » Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:40 pm

My concern with Malkin is he just seems to be breaking down physically. He has missed about 50% of games the last two seasons. He still produces when he is on the ice. I'm not confident that can continue for much longer given the type of injuries he has had. Father time always wins eventually.
Last edited by SteelPro on Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by fractalsteel » Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:58 pm

He missed something like 80 games the past four years. I fear one more knee injury and he will just say fuck it and retire. 5-6 knee surgeries with three serious ones is a lot to deal with before you are 40.
if we could get another 2017-18 season or two out of him(should have garnered some MVP recognition that year) then he would be worth it-maybe.
I'm just worried about time missed.
Trochek can kill penalties as well. I think he would be a fine second center for us. Certainly not as offensively dynamic but as a solid two way he could help the Pens in different ways.

OK
Fiala just got 7.875 a year after a career year. If I'm Malkin I would want more than that.

I'm not buying that shit that the Pens and 58/71 are ready to get this done. I think Kris wants to see what offers he can get starting 7-13-22.

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Post by Orangesteel » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:49 pm

Count me in for keeping Letang over Malkin, and I too am a Geno fan.

Our defense is not very good, without Letang it sucks. I had high hopes for Marino but he really hasn’t taken the next step, at least not yet. Dumo is always hurt. Pettersen is OK but prone to stupidity.

We lose Letang we are in a dark place defensively.
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Post by fractalsteel » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:41 pm

Over at Pensburg and according to a few at 93FM the Pens and Letang are close to an agreement. Rumored to be at 7-8 million per but terms are still being hashed out.

Yeah, get 58 signed and then let the chips fall as they might.

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Post by Pabst » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 pm

Desmith resigned for 2 years at $1.8m per.

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Post by fractalsteel » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:47 pm

I have been thinking about the Pens front office a good bit and how the new ownership is working.
Is Mario a figure head now? I'd love to know that and I'm sure we are going to get some clues concerning an answer for such when FA kicks in.
If the rumors are true and the FO low balled Malkin and Letang(starting at 5 million per season) then it would suggest to me that Mario really has no say considering how adamant he was about keeping both of those players with Sid.

Then again Hextall believes the Pens still have a chance to win another cup. I think he is crazy for thinking that.

When it was Mario running it I think he brought Sid in on all the big discussions and decisions to be made. Just something that I believe but can't prove.
Remember when Kessel ran himself out of town and it was rumored that Malkin demanded a trade if the team didn't get rid of him? Sid spoke up loud and clearly that he didn't want Malkin gone.
Now with FA looming and what seems like stalled negotiations with 71/58 Sid has been pretty quiet. I know he has said he wants them to stay for the next three years but that was right after the season. The past few weeks maybe a month, nothing really.

Just wondering

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Post by SteelPro » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:55 pm

Flyers Russian Goalie prospect Ivan Fedotov detained and sent to arctic military base.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... t.amp.html

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Post by Pabst » Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:52 pm

SteelPro wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:55 pm
Flyers Russian Goalie prospect Ivan Fedotov detained and sent to arctic military base.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... t.amp.html
Beats living in Philly

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Post by fractalsteel » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:58 pm

Reports are that Letang got 6 years at 6.1 million per year. I guess the length was the big issue for Kris.

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Post by Pabst » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:07 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:58 pm
Reports are that Letang got 6 years at 6.1 million per year. I guess the length was the big issue for Kris.
I'm torn. Love the price, hate the length

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Post by fractalsteel » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:06 pm

Had anyone even mentioned 6 years? Letang said time and time again that he wanted to play 5 more years in the NHL. Hadn't heard one whisper about 6 years.

No trade clause for the first 4 years is what I'm seeing out there.

OK, the ball is in Malkin's court. He can follow Rust and Letang and take a cap friendly deal even if they give him 4 years.

The problem I see is that the Pens sign Malkin and they continue to make the playoffs and end up drafting in the 20's each year. Over at Pensburgh they looked at draft choices between 20-31 for a decade and saw that there weren't but a few impact players selected in those slots.


Getting younger isn't going to be easy especially when the pipeline isn't impressive.

But there are seats to be filled in the bucket and I think that is of prime concern.

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Post by DP39 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:13 pm

I'm glad they got a deal done. Absolutely love the majorly discounted AAV of $6.1, but like Pabst, the 6 years concerns me. Although, the dude stays in great shape, so who knows.

Let's hope he's on the Tom Brady healthy living plan.

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Post by fractalsteel » Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm

21st pick
Owen Pickering.
In three years he has grown 7 inches and gained 50 pounds(6'4"/180).
The Pens were surprised he was there with their pick.

Solid two way game but he won't be helping the team for a few years. One scout said he is probably a 3-4(pairing) Defenceman in the NHL.
Hmm

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Post by Pabst » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:49 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm
21st pick
Owen Pickering.
In three years he has grown 7 inches and gained 50 pounds(6'4"/180).
The Pens were surprised he was there with their pick.

Solid two way game but he won't be helping the team for a few years. One scout said he is probably a 3-4(pairing) Defenceman in the NHL.
Hmm
I've seen him compared to Travis Sanheim, which I'd be fine with.

The NHL draft is such a crapshoot.

Also, it was really cool to see a pair of Slovaks go 1st and 2nd. That country has fallen off the map in recent years wrt hockey, so hopefully the bronze medal and a pair of young talents sparks some renewed success.

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Post by fractalsteel » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:04 pm

Pabst wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:49 pm
fractalsteel wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm
21st pick
Owen Pickering.
In three years he has grown 7 inches and gained 50 pounds(6'4"/180).
The Pens were surprised he was there with their pick.

Solid two way game but he won't be helping the team for a few years. One scout said he is probably a 3-4(pairing) Defenceman in the NHL.
Hmm
The NHL draft is such a crapshoot.
No kidding.

Then I look at the Senators/Blackhawk trade for DeBrincat. The 7th pick overall, 39th and a third in 2024 for a proven 40 goal scorer who happens to be 24 years old.
No idea what Chicago was thinking but they either didn't think they could sign him after next year or he was going to leave. Now DeBrincat is saying the trade caught him off guard.
I think the Senators got the better of that trade by a good bit.

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Post by Pabst » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:43 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:04 pm
No kidding.

Then I look at the Senators/Blackhawk trade for DeBrincat. The 7th pick overall, 39th and a third in 2024 for a proven 40 goal scorer who happens to be 24 years old.
No idea what Chicago was thinking but they either didn't think they could sign him after next year or he was going to leave. Now DeBrincat is saying the trade caught him off guard.
I think the Senators got the better of that trade by a good bit.
There might be no better example of a GM that was plopped into a right place / right time situation than Stan Bowman. The guy inherited a dynasty and ran it into the ground within 7 years.

Chicago is about 4 years past due to blow it up and rebuild. Toews is a shell of his former self. Kane is about to turn 34. Both of their deals are up after next season. The only players they have signed beyond 2023/24 are defensive-liability Seth Jones, defensive-liability Jake McCabe, and oft-injured Connor Murphy. Their farm system is barren.

After finishing 6th place or worse over the last five season, they are looking at probably another 5 seasons of rebuild ahead of them. And after the crap that organization did, they deserve every bit of their suffering.

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Post by Pabst » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:57 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:04 pm
I think the Senators got the better of that trade by a good bit.
BTW....

Brady Tkachuk, Alex DeBrincat, Drake Batherson, Josh Norris, Tim Stutzle, and Thomas Chabot. Holy shit that is a talented group of players all under 25. Plus they have Jake Sanderson joining the roster next season.

If Ottawa can find a decent goaltender, they are going to be incredible in the very near future.

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Post by fractalsteel » Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:23 am

According to Darren Dreger Malkin and his camp want to test the FA waters.

Kind of makes sense if the Malkin camp is going to be patient with the Pens and also gets a gauge on what other teams might think his worth is.

No one(speculation) is even talking about more than 6-7 million/per for Malkin. Just three weeks ago the rumors were trending towards Malkin wanting 9-10 million/per.

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Post by Pabst » Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:44 am

Rakell resigns 6 years $30m

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