On to the offseason...

Here's the place for all matters puck. Be kind to your fellow posters, please.
User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

On to the offseason...

Post by Ice » Thu May 27, 2021 11:33 am

Earlier than I might have guessed, to be certain. With the new management leadership, the stage is set for some moves. Dead cap and organizational loyalty are what's standing against them. I think we need more than just some deck chair reshuffling. Post thoughts/rumors/rude gestures here as they come, I suppose. Long stretch till training camp, yet again. God, 2016 and 2017 were great... Pens win Cup late June, just a month till camp; great sports setup. Oh, well.


Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
BethlehemSteel
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:39 pm
Location: IGZF'S

Post by BethlehemSteel » Thu May 27, 2021 1:37 pm

As a long suffering fan from Philthy!!! I can emphatically say on the Pens post mortem.

The Pens are in decent shape, a few more bodies and some subtractions.

Jarry can turn it around if he gets into a fundamentals camp, that said he's toast

Malkin. When he is not in the lineup, the Pens look unbeatable. When he returns, either other players feel Shrek will save us or EM is a bad match on this team. There is a def chemistry balance issue. A few games and good shifts from Shrek and the populace is lulled back to sleep thinking things are A-OK!!!

They'd be better served moving him for some good returns, salary wise, You have a decent GM ;) that can do something.
If he isn't scared of the potential backlash

As much as I hate Sid, he's what makes that team hum. His ability around the net is unmatched in league history perhaps outside of #99.

I'll go back to my squalor filled jinxed/bad karma team and enjoy the next round of suffering. They've ruined the new kid goalie already. Maybe Hex can con Concast, Fletcher-Fraud and AV Fraud out of Carter Hart.
"If our team doesn't face enough adversity early on in a season, I create it. Nothing builds a team like adversity." ~ Mike Tomlin
Image

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Thu May 27, 2021 2:09 pm

After playing through all of the injuries this season, the one that does them in... Casey DeSmith. Looking back at the series with a degree of (still painful) hindsight, Beth is right. This lineup can win. They were the better team in every metric this series other than faceoffs (which picked up late) and GOALTENDING. Address that, and this team may have another good season left in it. Some bad bathwater, to be sure, but I'm not throwing the baby out with it just yet.

Now to root for Fleury and the VGK, with a melancholic sense of irony.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Thu May 27, 2021 3:09 pm

From across the mouths of Pens fans via social media(last night AD)

Trade Malkin for Carey Price
Move Tanev to Center b/n Malkin and Crosby next year(you can't make this shit up)
DO whatever it takes to get Connor McDavid
Trade everyone but Carter
Convince Vegas to give us back Fleury

Just a small, miniscule sample of the idiocy of some Pens fans

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Thu May 27, 2021 4:29 pm

I don't love the return to the perimeter game in the postseason. We could use some net-front presence (on both ends of the ice, honestly) on this team.

If there's an add to be made outside of goal, that's what I'd hope for.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Fri May 28, 2021 5:26 am

Their net front players got tired of getting the shit beaten out of them with no calls. NFL playoff officiating is their version of “parity”.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Fri May 28, 2021 8:56 am

No doubt they were getting somewhere between mugged and what happens when you drop the soap, every game, but I think between Hextall and Burke, I won't be surprised to see some size and "truculence" acquired in the off-season to push back against that, and if Sullivan pulls a Reaves and just doesn't play those players, Hex and Burke may push back against him. Sully was JR's guy. These two may not play as nicely with him.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Fri May 28, 2021 2:39 pm

Jeff Carter added size to the forwards.
If you are talking about such on the 2 top lines, who goes? Are we looking to replace Guentzel, or Rust? Kap or Zucker?

I think the first line of debate is the HC. Last year they didn't renew his assistants and clearly that was a shot across his bow. Now, they have excuses they can fall back on but I think Sully is 50-50 gone. He should have pulled Jarry after the 5th goal, for the teams sake.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Fri May 28, 2021 3:21 pm

Hextall and Burke come from a different school than Sullivan does, and they're not beholden to him in any way, so, I'd expect a short leash to begin next season at the least, and change could be an offseason possibility. With that performance in goal, though, and the injury forcing the hand for the most part (I mean, would you want Lagace, who you've watched play all of one NHL game, being your guy in a do or die game where your job might also be on the line?), I'm not sure we see an offseason firing. Sully has some blame to shoulder, I'll give you that.

As far as who the next guy might be? Well, the coach of the Baby Pens, of course. It's the safe money bet. Next safest? Any ex-Cryer.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Fri May 28, 2021 5:59 pm

They might be waiting to see who is nominated for the Jack Adams trophy. It would be embarrassing to fire your coach and then have him nominated for the award. Sullivan is a contender for sure.

Remember this, it has been a long time since the Pens have made a playoff run and that means that revenue for such is minimal. Mario has gone on record saying how important it is to him and the organization to have numerous home playoff games.
Three this year, none last year(special circumstances) and two the year before that. Half of what you normally get with a Cup run.

They are probably focusing on the expansion draft as well.
Who they don't protect could be very interesting and the rumors about such are all over the place. With the way he fit in this year, you have to think that Carter is part of their plans next year if not beyond.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Fri May 28, 2021 6:16 pm

Carter, the way he played for us, is also the exact kind of vet leader and expansion team might like to throw into their lineup. If I was the squid, he'd be tempting for sure. Him coming in and basically being the 3C of our dreams probably changes the protection calculus a little, for sure. Just please, don't give up a high pick to protect somebody, HexBurke...

One last bit on Jarry: it's not just playoff overreaction. His regular season stats were abysmal. He was worse than DeSmith in all of them, and worse by a few spots than there are teams in the league in all of them, as well. That doesn't even count the wretched playoff performance. He HAS to go.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

Dan Smith--BYU
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:33 am

Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Sat May 29, 2021 1:36 pm

The only possible role for Jarry in Pittsburgh may be first baseman.

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Sat May 29, 2021 5:37 pm

Don't forget about that pesky salary cap, buyouts and how NHL contracts are structured before you think Jarry is gone.
He is under contract for 2 more years at 3.5 million a season. Ouch!
The Pens, I believe have one more buyout left but then there is that pesky cap. Bjugstad and his 2 million in dead money come off which is a relief.



If i'm correct, that means that either the Pens have to find someone to take the sieve off their hands, or he retires or he dies or is murdered( a possibility) for the Pens to be rid of him.

The kicker, if Sully comes back Jarry is his guy. Not pulling him after giving up 5 last game suggests that to me.

Pabst knows this shit better so hopefully he can come off diaper duty and explain it better to us.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:56 pm

Another thought: while yes, Sorokin did have a very good series, the way the Isles protected him was admirable. Reminded me of the way we protected Murray during the back to back years, while the 2021 Pens were hanging Jarry out to dry with considerably more frequency. The enthusiastic team defense, and shot blocking in particular, needs to become part of our playoff repetoire again.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:32 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 5:37 pm
Don't forget about that pesky salary cap, buyouts and how NHL contracts are structured before you think Jarry is gone.
He is under contract for 2 more years at 3.5 million a season. Ouch!
The Pens, I believe have one more buyout left but then there is that pesky cap. Bjugstad and his 2 million in dead money come off which is a relief.



If i'm correct, that means that either the Pens have to find someone to take the sieve off their hands, or he retires or he dies or is murdered( a possibility) for the Pens to be rid of him.

The kicker, if Sully comes back Jarry is his guy. Not pulling him after giving up 5 last game suggests that to me.

Pabst knows this shit better so hopefully he can come off diaper duty and explain it better to us.
Maybe not being able to watch much of the series' is clouding my judgment, but I guess it's time for me to defend Jarry.

Jarry's $3.5m Cap hit is dirt cheap for a starting goalie....that's bottom 5 in the league for a starter. On top of that, Jarry is one of the youngest goalies in the NHL. He's young, he's talented, and he's cheap. This was his first time in the playoffs.

The playoff runs from guys like Murray and Jordan Binnington are the exception, not the rule. Juuse Saros didn't look very good this year. Thinking back to the Pens' 2016 run - Vasilevsky wasn't too good (granted, he came in due to injury). Henrik Lundqvist was utter trash in his first playoff action. I could go on....

Ultimately, there are two ways to look at the goaltending situation: There's no reason to create an additional hole in the roster with the expansion draft on the horizon. Or.....you get what you pay for. If you want an upgrade to Jarry, you have to pay for it.


BTW, the chubby fuck Mark Madden is pushing a rumor that the Pens want to trade Guentzel. Fuck that fat bastard.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:11 am

The "trade Guentzel" hype has more legs than just Madden, but I think it's probably mostly overreacting to playoff performance. Devil's advocate? He's probably the most movable piece on the roster.

Jarry... well, his salary is bottom 5, but so was his performance in the regular season, and it got worse in the playoffs. If we're sticking with him, we're definitely replacing the goalie coach and bringing in a starter capable vet #2, which will cost, too. Adds a couple or three million to that bottom 5 salary.

If Guentzel could be used to pry Gibson from Anaheim? At 6.something mill for 5 more years? I could probably be talked into it. The question then is only how do you dump Jarry's salary.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:07 pm

Bottom 5 production is a bit harsh, and that includes his terrible start. Still....he was better than guys like Price and Bobrovsky on the season.

And again, I can't emphasize Jarry's age enough - he just turned 26 and this was his first season as a starter.

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm

Pabst wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:32 pm
fractalsteel wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 5:37 pm
Don't forget about that pesky salary cap, buyouts and how NHL contracts are structured before you think Jarry is gone.
He is under contract for 2 more years at 3.5 million a season. Ouch!
The Pens, I believe have one more buyout left but then there is that pesky cap. Bjugstad and his 2 million in dead money come off which is a relief.



If i'm correct, that means that either the Pens have to find someone to take the sieve off their hands, or he retires or he dies or is murdered( a possibility) for the Pens to be rid of him.

The kicker, if Sully comes back Jarry is his guy. Not pulling him after giving up 5 last game suggests that to me.

Pabst knows this shit better so hopefully he can come off diaper duty and explain it better to us.
Maybe not being able to watch much of the series' is clouding my judgment, but I guess it's time for me to defend Jarry.

Jarry's $3.5m Cap hit is dirt cheap for a starting goalie....that's bottom 5 in the league for a starter. On top of that, Jarry is one of the youngest goalies in the NHL. He's young, he's talented, and he's cheap. This was his first time in the playoffs.

The playoff runs from guys like Murray and Jordan Binnington are the exception, not the rule. Juuse Saros didn't look very good this year. Thinking back to the Pens' 2016 run - Vasilevsky wasn't too good (granted, he came in due to injury). Henrik Lundqvist was utter trash in his first playoff action. I could go on....

Ultimately, there are two ways to look at the goaltending situation: There's no reason to create an additional hole in the roster with the expansion draft on the horizon. Or.....you get what you pay for. If you want an upgrade to Jarry, you have to pay for it.


BTW, the chubby fuck Mark Madden is pushing a rumor that the Pens want to trade Guentzel. Fuck that fat bastard.

You can defend Jarry's future but you can't defend his play in the series against the Islanders.
Game 2 was the only game he was stellar in. The rest he was terrible at times and average at best.

I wasn't expecting Jarry to be Dryden in the playoffs but he was culprit number 1 for them losing the series. BTW, there is a lot of blame to go around as well.

I expect Jarry to return because they don't have the 'next' one ready and they don't have the resources to pay a guy like Rask if he goes onto the market.

Inconsistency is Jarry's enemy and it reared its ugly head time and time again in the series against the Islanders. If it wasn't poor positioning, it was playing too deep in his net when the shooter was squared up on him and forty feet away. He is a better puck handler than he showed in the series and some of his decisions with the puck were incredibly bad.

I think Ice is right, the Pens have to find better coaching/ development for their tenders.
Well, the band will be together(for the most part) next year. Hopefully we get better goaltending.

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:19 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm
You can defend Jarry's future but you can't defend his play in the series against the Islanders.
Game 2 was the only game he was stellar in. The rest he was terrible at times and average at best.

I wasn't expecting Jarry to be Dryden in the playoffs but he culprit number 1 for them losing the series. BTW, there is a lot of blame to go around as well.

I expect Jarry to return because they don't have the 'next' one ready and they don't have the resources to pay a guy like Rask if he goes onto the market.

Inconsistency is Jarry's enemy and it reared its ugly head time and time again in the series against the Islanders. If it wasn't poor positioning, it was playing too deep in his net when the shooter was squared up on him and forty feet away. He is better puck handler than he showed in the series and some of his decisions with the puck were incredibly bad.

I think Ice is right, the Pens have to find better coaching/ development for their tenders.
Well, the band will be together(for the most part) next year. Hopefully we get better goaltending.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending his playoff performance. My view is that trading/cutting him would be an overreaction that would likely end with a downgrade at the position.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:33 pm

Pabst wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:07 pm
Bottom 5 production is a bit harsh, and that includes his terrible start. Still....he was better than guys like Price and Bobrovsky on the season.

And again, I can't emphasize Jarry's age enough - he just turned 26 and this was his first season as a starter.
Jarry ranked 35th in save% among goalies who played at least 10 games in the 2020-21 season. Bottom 5 production was actually being generous, when you consider the number of teams in the league. The save% got worse in the playoffs.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:59 pm

Thoughts on expansion draft protection? We actually have some interesting choices to make there.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:23 pm

Malkin had knee surgery and not the kind that is a routine cleanup. He isn't going to be available when camp starts in September. Imagine what he could have meant to the Pens if he had more than one good leg in the playoffs.

Not what you want to start a long season.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:48 pm

Now I definitely understand why we might want to protect/re-sign Carter.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:45 pm

Carter has one year left on his deal.

7/3
is the breakdown for protecting players.
Crosby, Malkin and Letang are automatic due to NMC.
On the forward side you would have to believe that Guentzel, Rust, Kap and probably McCann are protected. That leaves one spot and the logical choices are Zucker, Bluegar, Tanev, and Carter.

To me Bluegar and Tanev are just bottom six guys who are valuable to the team but wouldn't be much in trade value. Tanev's contract is an interesting asset. I think that leaves the decision to the last protected spot being either Zucker or Carter.

To the D men, Dumo is safe but the third spot is...?
Marino is not eligible to be drafted as is POJ, so I think it comes down to Petersson and Matheson for the third slot.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 3117
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:52 am

Zuck and Petterson would be my choices there with Malkin out. Carter at 2.6 with LA still retaining, too good of a value. Whichever of Zucker or Petterson doesn't get picked, I'd try to swap for picks to unblock Poulin or the aforementioned POJ next season, respectively. We need some fresh legs, and we need to get cheaper on D.

Tanev would probably be the toughest loss as an exposed F. Yeah, bottom 6, but he brings something we need more of, not less.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:39 pm

Crosby had a 'minor' procedure done on his left wrist today. Something that has bothered him for a few years and he decided to go under the knife.
He will miss the start to camp and will be sidelined for 6 weeks.

Louis Lipps Service
Posts: 2659
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 pm

Post by Louis Lipps Service » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:48 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:39 pm
Crosby had a 'minor' procedure done on his left wrist today. Something that has bothered him for a few years and he decided to go under the knife.
He will miss the start to camp and will be sidelined for 6 weeks.
If you’ve been following this story, this question is almost cliche now it’s been asked so much, but I’ll ask it here:

If it’s been around that long, why wait until now to fix it…and especially why not get it fixed earlier in the off-season?

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:26 pm

Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:48 pm
fractalsteel wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:39 pm
Crosby had a 'minor' procedure done on his left wrist today. Something that has bothered him for a few years and he decided to go under the knife.
He will miss the start to camp and will be sidelined for 6 weeks.
If you’ve been following this story, this question is almost cliche now it’s been asked so much, but I’ll ask it here:

If it’s been around that long, why wait until now to fix it…and especially why not get it fixed earlier in the off-season?
Fair question and the article on NHL.com said Crosby had tried other avenues to rectify the problem but surgery was the only/last way to correct the issue.
Speaking from experience, surgery that requires being knocked out sucks. The longer you are under anesthesiology the longer it takes to recover from it. That dry mouth syndrome is enough to keep me from pursuing it again even though it might help me with my knee.

Waiting to the last minute is troubling to me as well but these guys like Crosby who train like maniacs and give 110% through preseason to the end of the season might just want those few precious months to themselves to rest/unwind/live their lives.

If he misses time in the regular season it could be an interesting start with Carter as the top center.

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 2701
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:25 pm

A possibility that I haven't looked into at all, so this might be way off base - surgery could have been delayed due to covid restrictions.

Now....if there's one player who i'm not worried about missing camp & pre-season, it's Sid.

Orangesteel
Posts: 4387
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:23 pm

Post by Orangesteel » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:37 pm

So no Malkin or Sid for maybe two months? Jeeeeeez.
“Thoughts are a waste of time for me.” - Michael Pettaway Tomlin

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic