QB Purgatory

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Steeldrama
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QB Purgatory

Post by Steeldrama » Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:08 pm

Image

Bradshaw to Ben to ?

Doesn’t look like it’s going to be to Kenny (shocking).

The search for Ben’s successor rolls on.

I enjoy the hindsight game as much as the next poster.

Creed Humphrey was served up on a silver platter to be Pouncey’s successor (MUUUUUTH!).

Perhaps a little less obvious at the time, but Lamar Jackson was served up on a silver platter to be Ben’s successor (Sooo glad Terrell Edmunds is from Virginia).

Hopefully, now that Colbert is gone, his BRUTAL history of selecting qbs not named Ben is gone with him.
Landry Jones, Omar Jacobs, Dennis Dixon, Brian St. Pierre, Kenny Pickett, Josh Dobbs, Mason Rudolph etc.

Soooo uninspiringly AWFUL.

Anyway, I was born into QB greatness during a snowstorm in March of 1971 just months after the conclusion of Terry Bradshaw’s forgettable rookie season.

4 Super Bowl wins and 25 years later, the next great Steelers’ quarterback FINALLY arrived.

Suwanee88 and I celebrated the arrival of Big Ben, not with cigars but with beer and wings in his tastefully decorated Steelers’ man cave.

We KNEW the Steelers picked a winner.

Two more Super Bowls followed by a HOF career largely squandered by Tomlin, I not so patiently await the arrival of the next great Steelers’ qb.

I’m 52.

I don’t want to be in a nursing home waiting on Conchita to change my diaper before the Steelers find their next great quarterback.

Being stuck in football purgatory is no fun.

Until Tomlin, Deuce, and Kenny are gone, here we’ll stay.

Doesn’t mean I can’t pontificate about some options to at least ATTEMPT to upgrade the qb position.

The Draft:

Drafting the next franchise qb is what I think we all want.

Not looking like the Steelers are going to find that picking 20th in this year’s draft.
They won’t trade up.
Day 3 dart throw what I’m expecting.

My guess is the Steelers sign a vet FA QB to “compete” with Kenny then take another swing at an early rd qb next year.

Day 1

• The two FUN qbs I see are Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels.
Drake Maye a more prototype resume.

Day 2

• I’m a Bo Nix fan. Dig his Auburn Houdini act combined with his more cerebral Oregon approach.
Michael Penix deep ball prowess abandoned him when I needed it most. Forever dead to me after losing the Natty to scUM.

Day 3 Dart throws

Spencer Rattler- Too short for my liking, but I can’t get past year’s upset over the heavily favored Vols out of my mind.
JJ McCarthy- There’s an “it” factor with this kid along with some high-end athleticism. BUT I don’t see anything resembling a special arm talent.
Michael Pratt- read mixed reviews of the Tulane kid down in Mobile. All these kids late day 3 fliers for me so when you see one that intrigues you shout it out.
Carter Bradley- Gus’ son showed worthy of late rd dart throw down in Mobile.
Davius Richard- The last HBCU qb drafted was Tavares Jackson back in 2016. Dual threat type said to impress at Hula Bowl.

UDFA route

Tua’s little brother- Fun little player, heavy emphasis on the little.
Jason Bean- Also fun and also too small for my liking.
Joe Milton- Highly touted recruit with obvious arm talent. No glowing reports coming out of Mobile.
John Rhys Plumlee- Tremendous athlete. Might want to try a new position or stick to baseball.
Sam Hartman- This handsome ‘sum bitch has a better shot at becoming a movie star than NFL star.
Devin Leary/Jack Plummer/Jordan Travis/Austin Reed types may very well get drafted, but I hope not by the Steelers
• Insert slew of B2B names here that I’ll google for the post board mock, wildly fun, whole team draft exercise.

Veteran “Competition” for Kenny

Too expensive:

Kirk Cousins- If the Steelers had everything BUT the qb, then I could see taking the pricey gamble on Cousins and his shredded achilles.
Baker Mayfield- I promise you Cool Shades digs him some Baker swag and moxie. Will be overpaid due to dearth of starting caliber talent at the qb position throughout the league.

On the cheap:

Joe Flacco- You scoff? Pickens running under a Flacco moon ball could be mildly entertaining.
Jacoby Brissett- Steelers rumored to be interested.
Tyrod Taylor- He is from Virginia

Trade Targets:

Justin Fields- I’d like this one more than the rest of y’all save a couple savvy Buckeye posters, but I wouldn’t throw anything more than a 3rd at ‘em.
Geno Smith- Underwhelmed in Seattle last season. He or Drew Lock could probably be had on the cheap if new head coach Mike McDonald wants to pick his own qb.
Jake Browning- I can’t see the Bengals trading him given the fragility of Joe Burrow.

Waiver Fodder:

Russell Wilson- I’m no capologist so I don’t know the ramifications the Broncos would have for flat out releasing Wilson, but I suppose the Steelers could offer a future pick if the Broncos absorbed most of the sticker shock.
Derrick Carr- For such a subpar talent, this dude sure has been paid a shit-ton of money. Probably cap ramifications here, but if I’m the Saints he gone.
Jimmy G- Owes Belichick for life for way overselling his qb abilities.
Sam Howell- Redskins will draft a qb at 2.

QBs with an Andy Weidl connection:

Gardner Minshew- I see likeability and swagger. Ideal placeholder until our savior arrives in ’25.
Carson Wentz- Perhaps his brief time with Sean McVay proved valuable.

Uncle Artie’s Boyz:

Ryan Tannehill- This is of course the obvious connection, but even Artie knows that his reclamation project can’t be reclamated twice.
Marcus Mariotta- Man I hope this one happens just for the pure comedy of it all. Dude flat out quit on the Falcons after being benched for an equally bad Desmond Ridder.

Colbert Dart Throws:

Josh Dobbs- Another hard pass for me, but nothing the Steelers do this offseason will remotely shock me.
Mason Rudolph- kept waiting for him to turn back into a pumpkin. I hope he thumbs his nose at Tomlin and bolts for greener pastures.

Well that’s all the time I have for today. Please comment on the names you like and those you don’t as well as call me out for any omissions. Quarterback OBVIOUSLY the biggest need on the team, but I can’t see the Steelers doing much other than a cheap FA option and/or a day 3 dart throw. I for one will be interested to see if any of the names above find their way into Artie Smith’s qb room this offseason.


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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:24 pm

Other than the first and second round picks that most likely won't work out except maybe Williams and Daniels, I don't see anyone on that list better than Mason.
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MWS71
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Post by MWS71 » Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:42 pm

I like the Justin Fields idea. We’re gonna run it a whole lot, bringing in a running qb wouldn’t hurt achieve that stated goal. Could Fields consistently hit enough chunk plays behind a fearsome ground game for the team to actually compete? I guess that’s the question.

They’d need a center and a tackle to create said fearsome run game though. Plus whatever you trade to bring Fields over and all of a sudden DL, CB, and ILB are getting addressed pretty late.

If Chicago would take a conditional type pick maybe that could work. Something late this year and next but if we win division next years pick is 2nd?

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jebrick
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Post by jebrick » Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:45 pm

Minshew is the fully cooked Kenny Pickett. Makes descent decisions but does not have the arm to cash the checks.

My guess is the FA route and build the team so you can go get your QB when you have a team.
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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:49 pm

"• Russell Wilson- I’m no capologist so I don’t know the ramifications the Broncos would have for flat out releasing Wilson, but I suppose the Steelers could offer a future pick if the Broncos absorbed most of the sticker shock."

Broncos are on the hook for the first 35 million so if he is cut, a team could take a flyer for close to the league minimum.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

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Jobu
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Post by Jobu » Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:22 pm

Day 1
Caleb Williams- Personally, I want no part of a mentally weak QB that’s cried in his mothers arms after a loss. And that before mentioning all the bullshit that comes out of his mouth.

Jayden Daniels- Can’t play in the NFL. You heard it here first.

Drake Maye- Probably not much more than Jimmy G/Derek Carr.

Day 2
Bo Nix- I’m a fan. I think he surprises at the next level.

Michael Penix- I probably only watched him play 3-4 games at Washington, so most of my opinion on him is from his Bloomington gig…and the turd he laid in the NCG.

Day 3 Dart throws
Spencer Rattler- The poster boy for overrated high school recruits…boy the hype! He’ll make a comfortable living in the NFL, as a backup.

JJ McCarthy- Steelers already have a less athletic JJMac on the roster. Shades and Artie are putting together their “no pass in an entire half” game plan as we speak.

Michael Pratt- Admittedly, I don’t know much on this kid, but have been seeing his name popping up here and there.

Carter Bradley- Ditto.

Davius Richard- I got nothing.

UDFA route
Little Tua-The kid can sling it. North of the border is calling.

Jason Bean- No clue.

Joe Milton- Everything I’ve read says the guy was a big fucking zero at the Senior Bowl. Most “untalented” talented QB I’ve ever seen.

John Rhys Plumlee- Not an NFL QB.

Sam Hartman- My youngest daughter doesn’t watch football, but she has a giant crush. If the Steelers draft him, she will be sitting next to me every Sunday, driving me nuts! Please, dear God…No!

Devin Leary/Jack Plummer/Jordan Travis/Austin Reed- No/no/ehh/ no.


Veteran “Competition” for Kenny
Too expensive:
Kirk Cousins- Age, injury, contract? I like Cousins more than most, but he would be a huge gamble.

Baker Mayfied- I’d be all for this, and I’m not so sure he would be too expensive. Plus, they could make Accrisure…yes Bozos, it is Accrisure Stadium, the new site for the “At home with Baker” ads. Win/win!

On the cheap:
Joe Flacco- Old Joe caught lightning in a bottle with the Stains, but at the end of the day, he is what he is. An aging backup.

Jacoby Brissett- Steelers rumored to be interested? Of course they are!

Tyrod Taylor- He is from Virginia? And of course he is!

Trade Targets:
Justin Fields- I’d be all over this if I thought the Steelers had any ability to take advantage of his talent. Alas…
And yes, I’m one of this sites Buckeye posters. Not sure if I’m savvy though…

Geno Smith- :roll:

Jake Browning- Yep, Bungs aren’t trading him.


Waiver Fodder
Russell Wilson- Please, oh please, make it stop!

Derrick Carr- :lol:

Jimmy G- The mileage (and money) this guy has gotten out of being mediocre is mind boggling.

Sam Howell- I’d be fine with this if I thought he would get an honest shot to compete. He wouldn’t.

QBs with an Andy Weidl connection:
Gardner Minshew- this could work. Makes too much sense though, so it won’t happen.

Carson Wentz- As a backup? Why not?

Uncle Artie’s Boyz:
Ryan Tannehill- If Rudy walks, and he should, I fully expect to see this one.

Marcus Marietta- I’d laugh, but this is just the kind of dumbass move I see the Steelers making…just to fuck with us.

Colbert Dart Throws:
Josh Dobbs- Every time Dobbs is on the market, I expect him to end up on the Steelers roster. Sometimes I’m right…sometimes I’m wrong.

Mason Rudolph- If Rudy hasn’t figured out that he will have no real opportunity to compete for the Steelers QB job by now, I have some prime Nebraska beach front property he might be interested in .

Here’s my guess at the Steelers QB depth chart come September 2024…
Kenny Pickett
Josh Dobbs
Tyrod Taylor
Jordan Travis

Good topic Drama.
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jagoff! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:16 am

Mason keeps looking better every day.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

Nietzsche

Steeldrama
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Post by Steeldrama » Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:41 am

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... uarterback

Deuce not ruling out a trade for a qb

Please don't give away what little draft capital we have on some hand off monkey
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bradshaw2ben
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:27 pm

It would be SO on brand to give away a 1st round pick on a mediocre QB just so they don’t have to have a year of rebuilding. Making that mistake one year before a bunch of QBs enter that draft who I personally think have tools and talent that could change a franchises fortunes… devastating for a franchise that needs core players even if they collect a flashy but largely ineffective Fields and he miraculously turns it around.

Rebuild the damn team and stop sacrificing the future to remain “competitive”.

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Post by Steeldrama » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:02 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:27 pm

Rebuild the damn team and stop sacrificing the future to remain “competitive”.
This ^
Nick Markakis on Astros: "Every guy over there needs a beating."

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Post by Jobu » Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:59 pm

Steeldrama wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:02 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:27 pm

Rebuild the damn team and stop sacrificing the future to remain “competitive”.
This ^
To embrace a rebuild, they need to admit they need a rebuild. I don’t think this organization has that in them…from the owner down to the head coach.
A rebuild should’ve started the minute Ben retired…if not sooner. Yet here we are…
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jagoff! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad

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Post by steelclan » Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:32 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:27 pm
It would be SO on brand to give away a 1st round pick on a mediocre QB just so they don’t have to have a year of rebuilding. Making that mistake one year before a bunch of QBs enter that draft who I personally think have tools and talent that could change a franchises fortunes… devastating for a franchise that needs core players even if they collect a flashy but largely ineffective Fields and he miraculously turns it around.

Rebuild the damn team and stop sacrificing the future to remain “competitive”.
I don't disagree but how to do that?

Be interested to see what folks think that path would look like.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:40 pm

It means don't take RB in the first round
It means take OL instead of a TE who isn't some kind of an outlier
It means don't take morbidly flawed QBs in the top 100 picks just because you need a QB... and especially not when you need to buil;d the OL/DL/CBs and other priority positions
It means don't draft a 1st round QB who isn't an elite player/or incredible ceiling prospect.
It means let young players play and don't let safer vets with no long-term future on the team take up snaps/roster space.

The last one is especially egregious. I remember once writing an article about the okay vet starters who were serving as obstacles to getting better. They're almost worse than having terrible starters you know you have to replace.

Like we all understand Mason Cole or Dan Moore have to go, but I'd argue guys like Najee and Freiermuth and Alan Robinson and Pat Peterson and Levi Wallace and Ogunjobi who are keeping upgrades from happening. All are players who need to have the scheme tailed to work around their weaknesses but who are seemingly entrenched in their jobs, except for maybe Wallace. And I'd add any team with career STs guys who can't play a lick outside of STs is not working toward their future.

Anyway, there's so, so much to work on before a difference-maker QB would matter and you have to give guys experience, which really means a chance to succeed or fail in pressure situations you can't recreate in practice. That is antithetical to playing to "not be too bad", which is what being a 7 or 8 seed in a 16-team conference means.

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Post by jebrick » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:28 pm

Pickett is so bad of a pick mainly because he is not an outlier in talent that you are risking that you can fix ( like L. Jackson). Colbert fucked us over for years with his last 2 drafts
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Post by Ice » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:40 pm

It's definitely the roster-filling, Miles Killebrew-y, Levi Wallace-y types that irk me with this, too. Nothing special, not too much that a young, hungry, higher upside player couldn't do.... why does the STs gunner always have to be an 8+ year vet WR who can't catch? Sorry, I'll be back to hopeful optimism sometime after the draft again.
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Post by Suwanee88 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:46 pm

Drama…..what do you think of Joe Milton? I watched him today. Holy shit. Incredible skill set. The antithesis of Pickett.

Any idea where that kid gets drafted?

It’s Pickett’s ball in 2024, no question., but he would be an interesting project.

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Post by Steeldrama » Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:58 pm

Suwanee88 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:46 pm
Drama…..what do you think of Joe Milton? I watched him today. Holy shit. Incredible skill set. The antithesis of Pickett.

Any idea where that kid gets drafted?

It’s Pickett’s ball in 2024, no question., but he would be an interesting project.
Saw what you did my friend

Put on a show up in Indy

Day 3 project pick but a fun player

Penix throws a nice ball but he’s dead to me
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Post by jebrick » Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:39 am

Suwanee88 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:46 pm
Drama…..what do you think of Joe Milton? I watched him today. Holy shit. Incredible skill set. The antithesis of Pickett.

Any idea where that kid gets drafted?

It’s Pickett’s ball in 2024, no question., but he would be an interesting project.
His accuracy is shit. I understand ( from Vols fans) he is a one read then everything breaks down. Sure he has the arm but you are going to spend 2-5 years fixing him. 6th round pick is my guess. He did look better in shorts.

Hartman looked like a DND with his throws. i was more impressed with Leary from Kentucky. McCarthy made some throws. Showed a strong arm but his accuracy on the out routes was shit.
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Post by Suwanee88 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:00 pm

He reminds me of Josh Allen with a better Arm if that is possible. Same build, maybe a better athlete, and a few years older when they came out of college (23 vs 21).

Allen’s accuracy was shit too, worse than Milton’s on paper.

I like him a lot. Project, but with massive potential.

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Post by jebrick » Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:20 pm

Suwanee88 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:00 pm
He reminds me of Josh Allen with a better Arm if that is possible. Same build, maybe a better athlete, and a few years older when they came out of college (23 vs 21).

Allen’s accuracy was shit too, worse than Milton’s on paper.

I like him a lot. Project, but with massive potential.
I have had multiple people keep saying that yet Milton is rated as a day 3 pick. Why?

From the draft network
Milton is a “fastball pitcher”. He can throw the 100 mph heat seeker but lacks a change-up, curve, sliders, etc. He tried to alter the tempo and pacing of his throws especially deep down the field but missed the mark more times than not. He struggles with finding the right amount of air, and touch to put on passes down the field. His accuracy and ball placement remain inconsistent. Milton's mechanics are a big part of the issue. He tends to over-stride when stepping into throws leading to poor ball placement and high passes. When pressured, if Milton doesn’t use his legs, he will stand flat-footed to throw from his upper body.
If they want to take him in the 6th and put 3 years into development then fine. The problem with getting a project QB late is they will never get practice or playing time with the current CBA. That will set them back so it is almost not worth drafting them.
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Post by Steel Bingo » Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:07 pm

Jobu wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:22 pm
Mason Rudolph- If Rudy hasn’t figured out that he will have no real opportunity to compete for the Steelers QB job by now, I have some prime Nebraska beach front property he might be interested in .

Here’s my guess at the Steelers QB depth chart come September 2024…
Kenny Pickett
Josh Dobbs
Tyrod Taylor
Jordan Travis
Mason may have to acknowledge that - realistically - it will be KP's ball for 2024, but he also knows that Pickett has missed time in both of his first two seasons due to injury. Also, at this point it would take one or two poor performances in a new uniform for the narrative of him losing the job to Devlin Hodges in '19, and not surpassing Trubisky for the better part of 2 seasons to emerge. Rudolph has a good thing going for him in Pittsburgh, and would be well advised to stick around for another season or two.

I like the idea of Jordan Travis as a developmental Steelers QB a lot. He does not have the raw ability of a Joe Milton III, but is an exceptional leader and for my money, is much more likely to reach his full potential at the next level.

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Post by Jobu » Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:19 pm

Steel Bingo wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:07 pm
Jobu wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:22 pm
Mason Rudolph- If Rudy hasn’t figured out that he will have no real opportunity to compete for the Steelers QB job by now, I have some prime Nebraska beach front property he might be interested in .

Here’s my guess at the Steelers QB depth chart come September 2024…
Kenny Pickett
Josh Dobbs
Tyrod Taylor
Jordan Travis
Mason may have to acknowledge that - realistically - it will be KP's ball for 2024, but he also knows that Pickett has missed time in both of his first two seasons due to injury. Also, at this point it would take one or two poor performances in a new uniform for the narrative of him losing the job to Devlin Hodges in '19, and not surpassing Trubisky for the better part of 2 seasons to emerge. Rudolph has a good thing going for him in Pittsburgh, and would be well advised to stick around for another season or two.

I like the idea of Jordan Travis as a developmental Steelers QB a lot. He does not have the raw ability of a Joe Milton III, but is an exceptional leader and for my money, is much more likely to reach his full potential at the next level.
I’m certainly no expert, but my judgment from watching both kids play at the college level is that Travis has much greater potential. I don’t care about Milton’s raw tools or how impressive he was at the underwear Olympics dog and pony show. He just isn’t very good at playing QB, IMO.
My prediction is that he’ll get drafted somewhere on day 3, never take a meaningful NFL snap, bounce around a few practice squads, and be out of the league in 3-4 years.
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jagoff! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad

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Post by steelclan » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:31 am

It may well be KP to start in 2024 but can't get past PS had a chance to start him in playoffs and stuck with MR.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:12 pm

Suwanee88 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:00 pm
He reminds me of Josh Allen with a better Arm if that is possible. Same build, maybe a better athlete, and a few years older when they came out of college (23 vs 21).

Allen’s accuracy was shit too, worse than Milton’s on paper.

I like him a lot. Project, but with massive potential.
Correction: Milton is 24. He’s older than Penix. Less than ideal for a project that size.

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Post by jebrick » Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:43 am

I saw an interesting take on McCarthy I will share
Will be interesting, and will be interesting on who gambles on JJ McCarthy. Honestly if he goes top 3 that is nuts to me considering how poorly he threw the ball. Sure people say Drake Maye had a bad year, even in a bad year he made throws JJ McCarthy has never made on Michigan.



College Football National Champion starting QBs, the last 26 starting QBs from those teams. Clearly any QB that was on a great team with a great defense and great run game, they did not really turn out in the NFL. Only one that did who was not a 500+ yard rusher on the ground was Joe Burrow. The rest with guys like Lawrence and especially Hurts, Newton and Watson were mobile QBs who ran the ball a ton on the ground for those teams and gained yardage. Tua Tagovailoa was on that National Title team with Hurts but clearly only played a bit but made that huge play to win it when it mattered.

Clearly McCarthy is athletic but never came close to rushing for over 500 yards in a season on Michigan, Watson rushed for over 1000 yards in his time at Clemson, Hurts almost did it twice while four years in college and Newton did it big time during that National Title run for Auburn that season.



JJ McCarthy Michigan
Stetson Bennett Georgia
Stetson Bennett Georgia
Mac Jones Alabama
Joe Burrow LSU
Trevor Lawrence Clemson
Jalen Hurts
Deshaun Watson Clemson
Jake Coker Alabama
JT Barrett Ohio State
Jameis Winston Florida State
AJ McCarron Alabama
AJ McCarron Alabama
Cam Newton Auburn
Greg McElroy Alabama
Tim Tebow Florida
Matt Flynn LSU
Tim Tebow Florida
Vince Young Texas
Matt Leinart USC
Matt Leinart USC/ Matt Mauck LSU
Craig Krenzel Ohio State
Ken Dorsey Miami FL
Josh Heupel Oklahoma
Chris Weinke Florida State
Tee Martin Tennessee





So what will JJ McCarthy be? We will see, but the few that were successful on this list, almost all were strong, mobile athletic guys who were physically able to create without totally depending on their passing. Not sure JJ can be that in the NFL.
“If you see the handwriting on the wall, you’re in the toilet.”

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