Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question

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SteelPro
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Citizenship Census Question

Post by SteelPro » Thu May 02, 2019 11:25 am

Zeke5123 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:Honest Question For All :

If you voted for dumpster the first time around, would you vote for him again simply on *economic* issues? IOW, de-regulate/ tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. Because he's certainly not responsible for unemployment numbers, or helping the middle class. Would you vote for him again, regardless of the candidate on the other side? Because most all of them are pretty much the same, with both bernie and joey being slightly different.


It is far from clear what or who is responsible for helping the poor or middle class.

I think what will animate voters the most is SCOTUS. RBG will likely not make it to 2024, so the question becomes who replaces her. Hopefully, we get another Gorsuch and can be rid of Chevron.

I morally abstain from voting, but if I were to vote I'd have to write-in some candidate; maybe Cuban haha. Trump isn't a great pick for norm reasons. Biden is a lousy pick from SCOTUS perspective. Lizzie Warren -- who I don't think will make it to Super Tuesday -- would be a disaster of epic portions. Ditto Bernie. Beto is interesting. Harris' record as an AG is disqualifying. Spartacus should be disqualified based on BK. Mean Amy is interesting. America's mayor is a moron.


I’d be pretty shocked if any of these Dems didn’t nominate Merrick Garland again for SCOTUS. He has the credentials, his record is mostly moderate, and even a fair number of Republicans felt he got a raw deal. Maybe some of the more extreme leftists like Bernie or Warren would reach for a highly liberal leaning justice, but they would still need numbers in the Senate to make that happen. As for me personally, I have to see how far this field of Democrats will have to move to the left to gain their nomination. If the radical left can be muted and one of these Dems can show any promise that they might be able to govern from the middle I would vote for them. But most likely I’ll be voting 3rd party.


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zeke5123
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Post by zeke5123 » Thu May 02, 2019 12:05 pm

The only way you get someone like Garland is if the Republicans control the Senate.

Also, what it means to be moderate is interesting. For example, Scalia (and Gorsuch after him) was (and is) the strongest defender of criminal rights. Garland is moderate because he is tough on crime. He is progressive in the sense that he generally doesn’t see the government limited in economic affairs. In this way, he is generally consistent with his views on civil liberties.

SteelPro
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Post by SteelPro » Thu May 02, 2019 2:01 pm

Zeke5123 wrote:The only way you get someone like Garland is if the Republicans control the Senate.

Also, what it means to be moderate is interesting. For example, Scalia (and Gorsuch after him) was (and is) the strongest defender of criminal rights. Garland is moderate because he is tough on crime. He is progressive in the sense that he generally doesn’t see the government limited in economic affairs. In this way, he is generally consistent with his views on civil liberties.


Agreed. Classifying Garland as a moderate is really in relation to the very liberal justices already on the court. He is still far left of the conservatives on the court. The belief that Garland can stay more in the middle is not so much based on his past rulings but on his track record for hiring moderate and conservative clerks.
People who quote themselves look like dogs who lick their balls

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Legacy User
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Post by Legacy User » Thu May 02, 2019 2:11 pm

I admit to being deeply skeptical and wary of libertarianism.

Libertarians champion freedom from governmental regulation without championing/requiring virtue from those institutions and persons who will be freed from the constraints. Freedom without virtue is pretty frightening.

I never understood Locke who saw this, but said freedom was more important anyway.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 30, 2019 4:52 pm

Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question

Files on those drives showed that he wrote a study in 2015 concluding that adding a citizenship question to the census would allow Republicans to draft even more extreme gerrymandered maps to stymie Democrats. And months after urging President Trump’s transition team to tack the question onto the census, he wrote the key portion of a draft Justice Department letter claiming the question was needed to enforce the 1965 Voting Rights Act — the rationale the administration later used to justify its decision.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/c ... eller.html

I figured it'd be crickets. . .
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

Kodiak
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Post by Kodiak » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:20 am

COR-TEN wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/c ... eller.html

I figured it'd be crickets. . .


LMFAO....this is like the "Hillary body count" files. Seek help for your useful ignorance.
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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:09 pm

Ah, there's more.

The latest bombshell from the formerly secret files of the GOP’s top gerrymandering guru emerged on Thursday, and it’s astounding: Voting rights advocates claim to have evidence that North Carolina Republican lawmakers repeatedly lied to a federal court, and to the public, in a successful effort to delay a special election that threatened their legislative supermajority.
According to a new legal filing, these materials reveal Hofeller had completed more than 97 percent of the new Senate plan and 90 percent of the new House plan by June 2017. In other words, Republicans allegedly lied to the federal district court. In July 2017, GOP lawmakers claimed that they had prepared no maps and therefore could not draw new districts in time for a special election—when, in reality, those maps were nearly finished.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/hofeller-republican-gerrymandering-north-carolina.html

If you can't win legitimately, cheat. All approved and sanctioned by the GOP.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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K_C_
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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:56 am

Fat orange con artist draft dodger's having a military parade today.

FUCKING HILARIOUS!

:lol:
“The young girls strut their hips in the sun, from the brick streets of Whiting to the gates of St. John.”

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Stlcrtn1974
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Post by Stlcrtn1974 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:15 pm

It's supposed to storm, hopefully he gets struck by lightning.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:24 pm

KC wrote:Fat orange con artist draft dodger's having a military parade today.

FUCKING HILARIOUS!

:lol:
Closing off a public memorial for a private event, that will cost you and me $2.5M extra. For a campaign rally. That's not even counting the over $100M spent so far on golf outings. Talk about graft.

And yes, a lightning strike would be the first desired option. Hopefully mcconnell is sitting right next to him.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

stillthere
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Post by stillthere » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:15 pm

You do realize the National Mall is a zoo every 4th of July and it cost money to pay all those cops around DC and on The Mall to close the roads off every year plus clean up? I mean every single year. I have been living in DC since 1995. The major difference is the president is attending the ceremonies at the mall this year oh yeah and there are some tanks out there sitting on platforms. If the turnout is low this year due to people boycotting Trump then that just makes everyone's job easier.

Donnie Brasco
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Post by Donnie Brasco » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:55 pm

"In 1970, the Census Bureau began sending around two questionnaires: a short-form questionnaire to gather basic population information and a long form that asked detailed questions about everything from household income to plumbing. The short form went to most households in America. The long form was sent to a much smaller sample of households, 1 in 6. Most people didn't get it.

Starting in 1970, questions about citizenship were included in the long-form questionnaire but not the short form. For instance, in 2000, those who received the long form were asked, "Is this person a CITIZEN of the United States?"


The 2000 long-form survey, sent to a subset of Americans, asked about citizenship. The more widely distributed census short form that year did not.
Census.gov/Screenshot by NPR
The short form kept it simple: name, relationship, age, sex, Hispanic origin, race, marital status and whether the home is owned or rented.


The 2000 census short form asked about race but not citizenship, which the long form that year did ask about.
Census.gov/Screenshot by NPR
Later, the census added the American Community Survey, conducted every year and sent to 3.5 million households. It began being fully implemented in 2005. It asks many of the same questions as the census long-form surveys from 1970 to 2000, including the citizenship question."

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59743651 ... s-question

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jebrick
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Post by jebrick » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:10 pm

https://www.politifact.com/texas/statem ... rvey-law-/
The bureau said federal law requires U.S. residents to answer the ACS.

Federal law mandates as much, but the bureau also doesn't seek to penalize individuals who fail to participate. The reality appears to be that recipients can refuse to comply.


By federal law, which has never been enforced, you must answer the census.

Personally, I do not see an issue with the question. The problem ends up when the Government weaponizes the information.
“If you see the handwriting on the wall, you’re in the toilet.”

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Kodiak
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Post by Kodiak » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:56 pm

jebrick wrote:Personally, I do not see an issue with the question. The problem ends up when the Government weaponizes the information.


That's my position. It wasn't for the courts to infer how the question might be used. If the govt were to misuse the information, THEN you have the courts as recourse.

I think given the policies being thrown around for illegal immigrants that we should have a good count/estimate so people can understand the costs being talked about.

Also, just because it might affect the electoral college to benefit one party (I doubt it would), doesn't make it invalid as a political reason. The problem is Democrats NOT including the question would be considered equally a political reason, by the same logic. All of that is beside the point - everyone should want an accurate count, and accurate allocation of electoral votes not for political reasons, but because it's the correct thing to do.
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