McCarthy Bounced As Speaker

[ol skool]

While we're at it, Khruschev added Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. Nary a vote was cast.

[Pabst]

"In 1926, 639,000 ethnic Russians resided in the Donbas, and Ukrainians made up 60% of the population. As a result of the Russification policy, the Ukrainian population of the Donbass then declined drastically as ethnic Russians settled in the region in large numbers."

[Pabst]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deporta ... ean_Tatars

[zeke5123]

Donbass is complicated and i don’t know enough about it.

Donbass voted something like 85-15 to stay in Ukraine. It wasn't remotely close.

You're also saying "might makes right" while Russia is bogged down in a stalemate (at best) with a country 1/5 it's size

Ehh depends on who conducted the poll. Some results were for independence, some for remaining in Ukraine with heavy autonomy, and a small amount for status quo.

Re might makes right yes and? You seemingly think I’m supporting Russia.

[Pabst]

Donbass is complicated and i don’t know enough about it.

Donbass voted something like 85-15 to stay in Ukraine. It wasn't remotely close.

You're also saying "might makes right" while Russia is bogged down in a stalemate (at best) with a country 1/5 it's size

Ehh depends on who conducted the poll. Some results were for independence, some for remaining in Ukraine with heavy autonomy, and a small amount for status quo.

Re might makes right yes and? You seemingly think I’m supporting Russia.

This was literally a referendum. Not a poll.

And you literally started this line of discussion by posting an article that argued Ukraine should cede to all of Putin's demands. So....yeah?

[zeke5123]

When I say poll I don’t mean private polls but actual elections. There was a large amount voting for independence from Ukraine but Ukraine et al claimed the referendum was rigged. It probably was! But not sure the counter poll was equally not corrupt.

[Professor Half Wit]

When I say poll I don’t mean private polls but actual elections.

Point deduction for using British English.

[Pabst]

When I say poll I don’t mean private polls but actual elections. There was a large amount voting for independence from Ukraine but Ukraine et al claimed the referendum was rigged. It probably was! But not sure the counter poll was equally not corrupt.

The referendum was in 1991.

Also my last post was very snarky and I apologize for that

[ol skool]

"In 1926, 639,000 ethnic Russians resided in the Donbas, and Ukrainians made up 60% of the population. As a result of the Russification policy, the Ukrainian population of the Donbass then declined drastically as ethnic Russians settled in the region in large numbers."

I’m not here to defend Lenin’s policy of Russifying the constituent parts of the USSR (and de-Russifying Russia, btw) in the name of defusing petty nationalism. I’m just saying that line in the dirt that said Russia on one side and Ukraine on the other was moved. In Ukraine’s favor.

Stalin and Khrushchev did the same. Again in Ukraine’s favor. Ol’ Nikita was Ukrainian, btw. Kinda neat how he just gave Crimea to his own people, don’t ya think?

Add all that to what the Czars added to Ukraine over centuries and you’ve got yourself quite a bit of land that was never Ukraine.

My question: Why are the 1991 borders sacrosanct? Why not 1944? Why not 1922? Etc.

Edit: fact-checking myself…sources say Khrushchev’s parents were Russian, though he was raised in Ukraine. The point about Ukraine’s border remains.

[Pabst]

My question: Why are the 1991 borders sacrosanct? Why not 1944? Why not 1922? Etc.

They're not, but they do offer a starting point.

If Putin's argument is that the regions should belong to Russia, then I'd say the most recent voting referendum is a good place to start to gauge where the population stands on a subject.

Russia armed/supported a separatist movement and followed that up with a full scale invasion. There was no "self determination" involved for the people living in these regions.

If you want to say "Fuck them, not our problem" then fine, but I will wholeheartedly disagree.

[Pabst]

For anyone who wants to keep supporting aid to Palestinians - Hamas just raided fuel and medicine from the UN:

Square profile picture
UNRWA
@UNRWA
STATEMENT

@UNRWA
received reports that yesterday a group of people with trucks purporting to be from the Ministry of Health of the de facto authorities in #Gaza, removed fuel and medical equipment from the Agency’s compound in #GazaCity

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Well that's all over.

All of you Cassandras are welcome to list all the ways you were personally harmed and all of your losses due to the lack of a House speaker for a couple of weeks right here.

[Professor Half Wit]

Well that's all over.

All of you Cassandras are welcome to list all the ways you were personally harmed and all of your losses due to the lack of a House speaker for a couple of weeks right here.

Maybe I’m not online enough to understand the reference, but weren’t all of Cassandra’s prophecies true, but she was doomed to be ignored?

So by calling all the Cassandras full of shit, isn’t that kind of exactly what it means to be a Cassandra? To be right and be dismissed / ignored?

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Fair point on Cassandra, she was right.

Anyway all the right people including AOC are literally crying over this guy so he must be good.

[Professor Half Wit]

Fair point on Cassandra, she was right.

Anyway all the right people including AOC are literally crying over this guy so he must be good.

Including me.

[Pabst]

Fair point on Cassandra, she was right.

Anyway all the right people including AOC are literally crying over this guy so he must be good.

Including me.

Hey, every Dem member of Congress voted with Matt Gaetz & Co to oust McCarthy.

They got what they asked for.

[Professor Half Wit]

Fair point on Cassandra, she was right.

Anyway all the right people including AOC are literally crying over this guy so he must be good.

Including me.

Hey, every Dem member of Congress voted with Matt Gaetz & Co to oust McCarthy.

They got what they asked for.

Not disagreeing. Also totally understandable why they did not save McCarthy.

Too bad the Ken Buck types gave up and said fuck it, let’s just eject someone not named Jordan.

Except this guy is Jordan, he just doesn’t yell and run to cameras.

Should have kept McCarthy who blamed the Dems for everything.