Election

[955876]

And we're not talking about fluctuating values here....He had a buddy appraise it at $1 Billion when the city of Palm Beach estimated it's value at $18-28 million

Since when does a city get involved in real estate loans?

What value did the banks value the property at?

Who was harmed here? Who is the victim?

Why did banks lend the money?

Lots of holes in the points you are trying to make Pabst.

I’ve bought and sold some real estate over the years. Never once did the city get involved in the appraisal process.

Always the lender sending out their own appraiser.

That’s how it works.

[CKSteeler]

The CARES Act passed with a 96 yays and zero nays in the Senate. Trump couldn't have stopped the CARES Act even if he wanted to.

Trump never tried, nor wanted, to stop the expansion of mail in ballots. Thanks for confirming.

And again, please keep trying to re-litigate shit that was laughed out of court 3 years ago. Should go over well with voters.

Please tell me, Pabst, by which method Trump was supposed to stop funds for mail in voting during Covid (because you keep conflating those two things - funds for the expansion of) when it passed 96-0 in the Senate.

What power did Trump have to stop this?

[955876]

Trump overstated the value of his properties when obtaining a loan. Ummmm so what.

The "so what" is that's fraud.

And we're not talking about fluctuating values here....He had a buddy appraise it at $1 Billion when the city of Palm Beach estimated it's value at $18-28 million


I've said it before and I'll say it again: Trump isn't asking for the law to be applied equally, he's asking for the same exemptions he complains that others receive. That's why I have no interest in defending him and his bullshit, sorry.

Tell me again when the state has ever gotten into the middle of a loan where there was no dispute between either party and both sides benefited from it. I'll sit here and wait because it hasn't happened. The fraud case against Trump was novel and by novel I mean a bullshit abuse of power. The banks had no issues with the loans and employ very skilled people in their own rights to go through every word of those documents. The banks never took issue, but years after both sides profited from the arrangement the state came into to cry fraud.

There's no accurate way to judge the value of the properties in question unless they actually go on the market because they are unique. There's nothing comparable.

Someone here besides me is looking at what is happening rather than who the charged is and forming their opinion from there.

The banks didn’t cite any fraud. They testified the opposite.

[CKSteeler]

And we're not talking about fluctuating values here....He had a buddy appraise it at $1 Billion when the city of Palm Beach estimated it's value at $18-28 million

Since when does a city get involved in real estate loans?

What value did the banks value the property at?

Who was harmed here? Who is the victim?

Why did banks lend the money?

Lots of holes in the points you are trying to make Pabst.

I’ve bought and sold some real estate over the years. Never once did the city get involved in the appraisal process.

Always the lender sending out their own appraiser.

That’s how it works.

Right. The notion that these massive banks that gave out these loans are victims, though they never recognized it, is so utterly ridiculous that only someone incredibly naive could believe it.

[swissvale72]

Related question: do you believe Ben was guilty of what he was ACCUSED of in GA and Nevada?

I’m less familiar with the Nevada accusations but don’t believe he was guilty in Georgia and argued this on a Boston talk show until I was cut off due to being too detailed. My argument was that it was physically impossible for him to have done what he was accused of doing

Can you elaborate on "physically impossible"?

Sure...per my memory, Ben was accused of having penetration with this girl without undoing his pants, while she sat on the toilet. Ben is 6'5"....to take his dick out without undoing his pants, and fuck this girl as she sat....to me....seemed to be an impossibility. talk show host pulled the plug on me before I could fully state my case.

[Stosh-67]

Trump overstated the value of his properties when obtaining a loan. Ummmm so what.

The "so what" is that's fraud.

And we're not talking about fluctuating values here....He had a buddy appraise it at $1 Billion when the city of Palm Beach estimated it's value at $18-28 million


I've said it before and I'll say it again: Trump isn't asking for the law to be applied equally, he's asking for the same exemptions he complains that others receive. That's why I have no interest in defending him and his bullshit, sorry.

I have passed Mar A lago dozens of times,
That property is insane, goes from beach to bay, about 19-20 acres. ( 17 acres )
65,000 s.f. house.


There are 2 houses for sale within a block or two or MAL

$40 million, 6,500 s.f. house on 1/2 acre
$45 million 13,000 s.f. on .43 acre.......
this is a new house.....
I believe they paid $6+ million for this property and house....
knocked it down and built this, thats lisetd for $45.

THEY BOUGHT A HALF ACRE LOT FOR $6+ million .....TO KNOCK DOWN.

Simple math....17 acres MAL....is 34 half acre lots......some would be ocean or bay front.
34 x $ 6million = $102.....if you just sold lots...
the 5 or 6 bay front lots and 5 or 6 ocean front LOTS.... would likely sell for $15-20 million each.....easy.

You are talking $300 million worth of lots.

Imagine if a developer built houses on those 34 lots....what would it sell for.

MADNESS

I do not know what the judge thought process is?
The judge has to be biased, if not insane and oblivious to real estate costs.
Check his voting record....

The least expensive house listed within a mile is $17.9 million on 0.28 acres.
5 bedrooms, 6,000 s.f. - NOT BEACH FRONT, NOT BAY FRONT.
Municipal values this at less then $3 million.... 6 times less than listing.
Judge is insane.

Municipal values of properties are generally much lower than market value.
Banks have appraisers......
Banks approved of all the financials.

If I can buy some properties in Palm Beach for the municipal value.......
and turn around and sell them for market value....
I would have Bezos opening my car door for me......jk.

[Stosh-67]

here is one.....
listed for $187 million.
2 acres....

you can fit 8+ of these properties onto MAL property



https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... p-map-list

Thats about a mile north of MAL.

This case should be tossed, yesterday, last week, when it was first filed.....

But I will not be surprised in one bit when the guy is found guilty.
Sick people.

Letitia James is oozing tax payer money....when her state is a crime fest....

[955876]

Stosh has his thinking hat on as well today.

But but but but the “judge” and the “city” said otherwise.

Banks don’t lend that type of money without doing their own appraisal.

Period.

That’s the value they use when providing the client with the term sheet. Client can accept that banks appraised value for their collateral properties or go look elsewhere for lending.

Neither the borrower nor the lender had any issues here. Bank CEOs testified to this.

And yet it’s in the “courts”.

And some of you don’t believe there is a witch-hunt in process to burn Donald Trump at the stake.

[Deebo]

I’m less familiar with the Nevada accusations but don’t believe he was guilty in Georgia and argued this on a Boston talk show until I was cut off due to being too detailed. My argument was that it was physically impossible for him to have done what he was accused of doing

Can you elaborate on "physically impossible"?

Sure...per my memory, Ben was accused of having penetration with this girl without undoing his pants, while she sat on the toilet. Ben is 6'5"....to take his dick out without undoing his pants, and fuck this girl as she sat....to me....seemed to be an impossibility. talk show host pulled the plug on me before I could fully state my case.

Well if she's doggy style on the seat and Ben doesn't really need to unzip his pants. I mean I may have been in a similar position once or twice in my life

But if she's sitting, then yes I agree with your stance. But either way, there wasn't any clear evidence and the DA didn't even decide to prosecute.

So while people may be upset where the process ends (Accusation/prosecution/guilty) on any criminal trial we generally accept the outcome. Public opinion is what it is. You feel a certain way about the J6 death and others feel differently.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

"The "so what" is that's fraud."

The fraud is a judge or prosecutor claiming an 18 m valuation. No bank or RE appraiser has come up with that insanely low number.

Prosecutors in this country need to face the same penalty as the defendant when crimes are charged fraudulently. This is only fair. Mike Nifong should have done time for rape in the Duke lacrosse case. Trevor Bauer accuser needs to go to prison for the time that Bauer would have done if he had been criminally charged for rape.

We live in a society where everyone gets to steal third base from first and go back of second if they are out.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-bi ... 0001cb1bd8

Holy shit, they are flat out admitting they charged Trump and didn't charge Biden because he is too old and senile.

"Special counsel Robert Hur has declined to prosecute President Joe Biden for his handling of classified documents, but said Biden's practices "present serious risks to national security," and added that Biden portrayed himself as an "elderly man with a poor memory" who would be sympathetic to a jury.

"Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen," the report said, but the evidence "does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

Biden said Thursday he was “pleased to see they reached the conclusion I believed all along they would reach — that there would be no charges brought in this case and the matter is now closed," adding that he “cooperated completely, threw up no roadblocks, and sought no delays.”

Hur's report included several shocking lines about Bidens’ memory, which the report said “was significantly limited” during his 2023 interviews with the special counsel. Biden's age and presentation would make it more difficult to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the now 81-year-old was guilty of willfully committing a crime."

If you support Biden you hate America and the rule of law. PERIOD.

So Trump should have acted more addled and he gets off? Either Biden is Junior Soprano or he's unfit cognitively. In neither case can he be president.

[955876]

Nah Dan. We are a nation of laws. Only trump breaks them because only Trump is getting prosecuted for things.

That proves his guilt.

And these non-charges prove Biden is innocent.

The idiot for the SECOND time in a WEEK said he recently spoke to a foreign head of state THAT HAS BEEN LOOONG DECEASED.

And there are people that will still vote for this brain dead POS.

[Pabst]

How many real estate transactions have you done in your life?

How many times did the lender take your word or your appraiser’s word as to the value?

Lenders use their own appraisal and then tell you the value they are willing to assign to that collateral.

They do not take your word. The value you put down is to get the loan application going. That is all.

The lender will do their own appraisal and then come back with their own terms.

The CEOs of these banks are not crying fraud. They said the exact opposite and that no harm was done and they were paid back in full.

Where is the crime again?

2. Neither of which were anywhere near this valuation, so not really comparable.

The idea that a property is worth 3x its claimed value because "billionaires could get into a bidding war" seems asinine to me on its face, but I guess that's why its going to court.

[Pabst]

Please tell me, Pabst, by which method Trump was supposed to stop funds for mail in voting during Covid (because you keep conflating those two things - funds for the expansion of) when it passed 96-0 in the Senate.

What power did Trump have to stop this?

Could have vetoed it.

Could have, at the very least, expressed concerns about potential for fraud before the fact.

Hell, if nothing else, he could have encouraged voters to vote by mail if they couldn't make it to the polls.

He didn't start bitching about it until he lost.

[955876]

Did you not see the comps that Stosh posted?

And why are you ignoring the very real fact that it’s the lender’s responsibility to have property pledged as collateral appraised by their own appraiser?

You are also ignoring the questions regarding who the victim here was and why charges were brought.

If this were a legit fraud case, the financial institutions would have suffered a loss and then pursued the matter legally by accusing Trump of fraud.

That didn’t happen. The opposite did. The bank CEO said they were paid in full for those loans, there was no issue on their end, and they’d gladly lend to Mr. Trump again.

Who is the victim here?

Since when does a municipal valuation mean anything ??

When was the last time that valuation was done?

What did the banks appraisers value it at??

Your argument here has more holes than Swiss cheese.

I’m not being argumentative or pushing my opinion. I’m making you aware of relevant facts you are ignoring.

Not sure why you’d push back on something with nothing relevant to support your argument.

Things such is this is why the term Trump Derangement Syndrome became a thing.

You are exhibiting it.

[955876]

The idea that a property is worth 3x its claimed value because "billionaires could get into a bidding war" seems asinine to me on its face, but I guess that's why its going to court.

Ever hear the term “buyers market” or “sellers market”??

Real estate is exactly worth what people are willing to bid on it.

That is a fact. Not opinion.

And who “claimed the value”? A judge years after the fact?? The municipality? A biased DA?

Why are you ignoring the banks lending process? They didn’t have a problem with those numbers. Why does the DA? Who was wronged here? You keep ignoring that.

Are you going to sell your home based on a municipal report or what the going rate in the market is?

You are being ridiculous on this one Pabst. No other way to describe it.

[Pabst]

Here's a few question I'd love answered:

If Trump really has real estate worth >$1 billion dollars, why is the GOP footing the bill for all his legal expenses?
If Trump's claims about the election are valid, why can't he produce evidence to support them and why has he/his staff been caught lying on multiple occasions?

You know what would be awesome? Not having a candidate that's forced to deal with all this bullshit. Forget Haley, Desantis, etc for a second - I'd have voted for the rotting corpse of Herbert Hoover over Joe Biden.

With Trump, it's an absolute non starter.

You want the border closed? Trump didn't do it.
You're concerned about the deficits? Trump exploded them.
You're worried about the "deep state"? Trump turned his COVID response over to Fauci.

And don't even try the "establishment" nonsense. Trump endorsed Ronna Romney. Trump endorsed all the shit candidates that blew the GOP's shot at the Senate. Hell, Trump told his supporters to stay at home in 2020 rather and it cost the GOP 2 senate seats in GA.

Trump has already had his shot at the White House and he's proven himself incapable. Worse yet, he's willing to throw anyone and everyone aside to placate his own ego.

Fuck him. I'm done with him. I'm not playing this stupid ass game.

If Biden was such a threat, you dipshit MAGA supporters wouldn't have nominated the one guy on the planet who could possibly lose to him.

And as a reminder, I'm very much on the Conservative side of the spectrum. I won't be casting a vote for Biden, but I sure as shit won't be pulling the lever for Trump.

[Pabst]

The idea that a property is worth 3x its claimed value because "billionaires could get into a bidding war" seems asinine to me on its face, but I guess that's why its going to court.

Ever hear the term “buyers market” or “sellers market”??

Real estate is exactly worth what people are willing to bid on it.

That is a fact. Not opinion.

Are you going to sell your home based on a municipal report or what the going rate for in the market is?

That is why lenders use appraisers.

You are being ridiculous on this one Pabst. No other way to describe it.

I'm beyond done giving a shit. He can take his billion dollars and fight it in court. Hell, maybe the broke-ass GOP can kick him a few more dollars for another bikini clad lawyer.


Hey, you wanted a "fighter"? Congrats, you got the fight you were looking for. I'm not helping.

[955876]

Here's a few question I'd love answered:

How about you settle up on the real estate nonsense you are pushing before moving the goalpost to multiple other topics.

And the border was more secure it had been in decades under Trump.

Remain in Mexico was working.

There have been record numbers crossing since Biden came into office.

Those are facts.

Now back to your real estate position before shifting those goalpost to deflect attention away from the ridiculousness of your claims.

Who is the victim in this real estate fraud case???

Simple question.

Now provide that answer.

[Pabst]

You are being ridiculous on this one Pabst. No other way to describe it.

I'm being ridiculous. Not the guy that shits in a gold toilet while stiffing his employees and paying off porn stars.

Cool. Noted. Don't care. Have fun in November.

[955876]

The idea that a property is worth 3x its claimed value because "billionaires could get into a bidding war" seems asinine to me on its face, but I guess that's why its going to court.

Ever hear the term “buyers market” or “sellers market”??

Real estate is exactly worth what people are willing to bid on it.

That is a fact. Not opinion.

Are you going to sell your home based on a municipal report or what the going rate for in the market is?

That is why lenders use appraisers.

You are being ridiculous on this one Pabst. No other way to describe it.

I'm beyond done giving a shit. He can take his billion dollars and fight it in court. Hell, maybe the broke-ass GOP can kick him a few more dollars for another bikini clad lawyer.


Hey, you wanted a "fighter"? Congrats, you got the fight you were looking for. I'm not helping.

Translation: you and others blew me out of the water by asking relevant questions and stating relevant facts. I had nothing but my hatred for Trump and gave up.

[955876]

You are being ridiculous on this one Pabst. No other way to describe it.

I'm being ridiculous. Not the guy that shits in a gold toilet while stiffing his employees and paying off porn stars.

Cool. Noted. Don't care. Have fun in November.

Neither are related. You are grasping at straws.

And failed to answer a single legitimate question that would refute your argument.

Who was the victim of this alleged fraud??

Very simple question…

[955876]

Have fun in November.

Oh I’m sure that has already been decided.

They will come up with as many votes as needed. Somehow the man that was just labeled senile and feeble who has been caught on tape referencing conversations he’s had recently with dead politicians will once again garner a record number of votes.

[Pabst]

Translation: you and others blew me out of the water by asking relevant questions and stating relevant facts. I had nothing but my hatred for Trump and gave up.

No, not at all.

See, I started here:

Those states had laws in place that stated mail in ballots could not be added to the total until the polls had closed.

You just hand waived it away with "none of it matters anyway"

Then I said this:

And again, please keep trying to re-litigate shit that was laughed out of court 3 years ago. Should go over well with voters.

You replied with "Citing courts doesn't make it valid"



Now, you're insisting I cite real estate law and/or facts around real estate assessment for a state I've never lived in.

Nah. If you can just hand-wave away shit that doesn't suit your argument, I'll do the same.

The fact that Trump was using an appraisal value 10x higher than it's assessed tax value and 3x higher than even the best estimate of the property looks, at the very least, shady as hell.

Maybe this will be an easy case (if he actually pays his legal council, that is).

[Pabst]

Last thing I'll say on the subject:

Voters are well aware of how shitty Biden is. His approvals are in the toilet and Kamala is (somehow) even worse. He'd lose in a landslide to any GOP candidate not named Donald Trump.

Why in the fuck the GOP is hellbent on stroking his fucking ego is completely lost on me.

Edit: One more thing - How is this not a wake up call for Dems as well?

I say this to both parties - The fact that you're running against Biden/Trump and it's even close should tell you how awful your party is.

[955876]

No, not at all.

Actually yes. Without a doubt.

I was specially referring to your stance on this real estate thing and you literally dodged each and every relevant fact and question.

All of them.

Have you replied yet with who the victim was?

Who was defrauded Pabst?

Should be veeeery easy for you to answer given your confidence.

[955876]

The fact that Trump was using an appraisal value 10x higher than it's assessed tax value and 3x higher than even the best estimate of the property looks, at the very least, shady as hell.

The banks, you know, the ones who lent the money and as a result were taking on the risk didn’t have a single problem with it.

They never cried fraud.

Odd isn’t it?

Once again since you are very slow to grasp this, THE BORROWER IS NIT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE APPRAISAL.

The lender is because they are taking the risk.

The borrower lost what they believe to be the value on their loan application.

From there it is up to the lender to assess the value being pledged as collateral.

Why are you having such a difficult time grasping that reality?

[Pabst]

No, not at all.

Actually yes. Without a doubt.

I was specially referring to your stance on this real estate thing and you literally dodged each and every relevant fact and question.

All of them.

Have you replied yet with who the victim was?

Who was defrauded Pabst?

Should be veeeery easy for you to answer given your confidence.

If Trump used a fraudulent assessment to get a loan, then the bank could claim fraud.

You're using the sovereign citizen argument that a crime needs to have a victim. That's not the case. A speeding ticket, for example, is a victimless crime.

[955876]

Voters are well aware of how shitty Biden is. His approvals are in the toilet and Kamala is (somehow) even worse. He'd lose in a landslide to any GOP candidate not named Donald Trump.

Why in the fuck the GOP is hellbent on stroking his fucking ego is completely lost on me.

Lost on me too.

I’ve said multiple times in this thread alone primary voters are stupid.

[955876]

If Trump used a fraudulent assessment to get a loan, then the bank could claim fraud.

Are you being dense here or just willfully obtuse??

The bank uses their own appraisal!!!!

How could he defraud them.

Say I want a loan. I’ll fill out an application and it will ask me to value my assets.

It is up to the bank to review the validity of what I wrote down. And if real estate is involved they will hire an appraiser and charge me the cost.

Once that appraisal comes back they will either issue me an offer or tell me to kick rocks.

No bank is lending without an appraisal. Duh.