Biden in Trouble

Discussions. Still no racial epithets or political campaigning. Don’t bring any of this back to the sports boards. What’s said in FFA, stays in FFA.
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Pabst
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Re: Biden in Trouble

Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:35 pm

So anyway, I've pissed off the Trump fans in here because I won't accept their arguments that he actually won in 2020.
I've pissed off the non-Trump Republicans because I won't accept that Nikki Haley has any sort of popularity among voters except for the 12 Republicans who still think the Bush era can be revived.
I've pissed off Democrats because I think Biden is an incompetent boob who has no business being anywhere near the White House.

Normally I'd join the Libertarians but they've teamed up with a Big Government Socialist in RFK Jr....so I guess I'll go sulk in the corner.



CKSteeler
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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:46 pm

Just like the court cases - It's accurate, you just don't like it. Trump got played and your position has been rejected multiple times over
Yes, yes. How could I argue with the sound reasoning that Trump could have vetoed covid funding at the height of hysteria over a small increase in funding for the USPS? The bill only passed with one no vote!
You can have the last word because at the end of the day your position has been defeated in every metric that actually matters.
What metric would that be? That the GOP only kind of won the 2022 midterms instead of it being a slam dunk and attributing it to voter backlash over 2020 election fraud talk with no real evidence?
And to that article you posted, you're acting as if partisan lobbying and GOTV drives are some grand conspiracy and not something that happens in every single election cycle.
Look, the article is there for anyone to read and determine if what they bragged about is normal. They sure as shit didn't see it as normal. Zuckerberg giving over 1 billion to fund the expansion of mail in voting sure as shit isn't normal. Having rioters ready to go on election night isn't normal. Having courts rewrite election laws on the fly in the months leading up to an election - something well out of their purview - is not normal.
Oh hey cool - So Trump's election in 2016 wasn't legit because Democrats believed Russian influence threw the election? I'm just going by your own standard here.
How many people still believe Russia had a serious influence on the 2016 election? The number dwindles to a small number of rubes. We got years of hearings and investigations based on that lie - something we'll never get with regards to the 2020 election. We have seen the best evidence that could be gathered, and it has been founding severely lacking by nearly anyone with two brain cells to rub together. The people who started the lie have been forced to back down, and we have things like the Twitter files that demonstrate absolutely that it was bullshit.

It's not they might be lying. They most definitely have been caught in lies. The entire thing was based on a lie. We can trace the origin of the lie. We have the smoking gun evidence that it was a lie.

The number of people who question the legitimacy of the 2020 election only continues to grow, despite your insistence that it is some albatross around the GOP's neck. Quite a bit of difference there.
So what's the level that this becomes a serious concern? Apparently somewhere between 20-30% of voters?
The people who doubted the 2016 election (based on a proven lie at this point) got breathless media coverage for the better part of 4 years, impeachment inquiries and special prosecutors. The Trump supporters have gotten whitewashes.
^ So Trump was making the same "rigged election" claims back in 2016....Right up until he won, then MAGA just *poof* forgot about them. Convenient.
As opposed to the Democrats who just wait until they lose to start bitching about how the election was stolen from them like Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary? Sure.

I don't base my belief that the election was rigged on anything that comes out of Trump's mouth. I don't vote. I wouldn't vote for Trump. I know bullshit when I see it.

When the entire system is trying to convince you that the last election was the most safe and secure in US history, I know enough to call bullshit.

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Post by swissvale72 » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:53 pm

Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:29 pm
Deebo wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:13 pm
Do you know how much we'd be hearing about this if this were Trump? There'd be SNL skits and it'd be all over Good Morning America
A quesiton I'd love for any Biden supporter to answer: If you feel as though Hur was incorrect in his assessment of Biden's mental acuity, then do you agree that Biden should face criminal charges?

Do these people not realize that they are literally rejecting Hur's reasoning for not pursuing criminal charges against Joe Biden, or are they just hoping no one notices?
Not following this as closely as many of you, my impression is that Hur is completely non-political, and honestly said what he thought. I also think though, that his recommending that criminal charges NOT be instituted is that, as opposed to Trump, Biden cooperated. Or..is it not the case that that that was part of his rationale?

CKSteeler
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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:58 pm

Florida is a perfect example of voter fraud hiding in plain sight. For most of my life, it was a swing state that could go either way. Despite an influx of Hispanic voters and voters from the NE, it has become solidly Republican.

Every election night was the same story. The blue parts of the state would drag their heels counting votes until the rest of the state reported. It was the same area time and time again that would magically find the votes on election night after the polls closed that would pull the Democrats within the margin of victory.

Then DeSantis changed election commissioners and tightened election laws and - poof - the state went solidly red. Votes were suddenly reported on time across the board.

The rest of the country went in the opposite direction in 2020 as election laws were loosened. The new "normal" is it takes weeks to count votes and certify an election.

Pabst is the guy in the room on fire telling himself everything is fine.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:06 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:46 pm
Just like the court cases - It's accurate, you just don't like it. Trump got played and your position has been rejected multiple times over
Yes, yes. How could I argue with the sound reasoning that Trump could have vetoed covid funding at the height of hysteria over a small increase in funding for the USPS? The bill only passed with one no vote!
Literally from your article:
the CARES Act, passed later that month, contained $400 million in grants to state election administrators
Further, the Federal Governments own Guidance on the CARES Act states that the funds can be used to increase access to Votes By Mail: https://www.eac.gov/sites/default/files ... stions.pdf


To recap, the GOP in Congress near unanimously passed a bill that threw money at states that allowed them to ramp up VBM. Trump signed the bill. Now you're crying foul that Dems did something that was within the confines of the law, while Trump was caught flat-footed.
What metric would that be? That the GOP only kind of won the 2022 midterms instead of it being a slam dunk and attributing it to voter backlash over 2020 election fraud talk with no real evidence?
- Losing in court
- Losing the Senate in the 2020 GA runoffs
- (Badly) underperforming in the 2022 midterms
How many people still believe Russia had a serious influence on the 2016 election? The number dwindles to a small number of rubes.
Too many. But the vast majority of Americans believe 2020 was legit. Also the 20% number was in the direct aftermath of the election.
I'm reading your statement as "Democrats moved on. We haven't".
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:46 pm
As opposed to the Democrats who just wait until they lose to start bitching about how the election was stolen from them like Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary? Sure.

I don't base my belief that the election was rigged on anything that comes out of Trump's mouth. I don't vote. I wouldn't vote for Trump. I know bullshit when I see it.

When the entire system is trying to convince you that the last election was the most safe and secure in US history, I know enough to call bullshit.
Bingo! Trump is behaving like / making the exact same BS claims that Gore, Hillary, and Stacy Abrams all made! Agree completely!

And I'm 100% for reducing mail-in ballots and for Voter ID, btw. And I'm also in complete agreement that the media is (at best) overselling Trump's 'crimes' and is overcompensating in countering Trump's 'rigged' claims with 'most secure election in history' garbage.


My entire point is this - Trump is every bit the corrupt/incompetent asshat that Biden and Hillary are. You might be willing to overlook that to get some good judges appointed or because Trump says the right things on immigration, but I'm not.

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Post by Deebo » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:08 pm

swissvale72 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:53 pm
Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:29 pm
Deebo wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:13 pm
Do you know how much we'd be hearing about this if this were Trump? There'd be SNL skits and it'd be all over Good Morning America
A quesiton I'd love for any Biden supporter to answer: If you feel as though Hur was incorrect in his assessment of Biden's mental acuity, then do you agree that Biden should face criminal charges?

Do these people not realize that they are literally rejecting Hur's reasoning for not pursuing criminal charges against Joe Biden, or are they just hoping no one notices?
Not following this as closely as many of you, my impression is that Hur is completely non-political, and honestly said what he thought. I also think though, that his recommending that criminal charges NOT be instituted is that, as opposed to Trump, Biden cooperated. Or..is it not the case that that that was part of his rationale?
Here's a dirty summary of what happened:

- Biden was found to have withheld classified docs
- Biden was found to have mental deficiencies

Ergo, due to his mental state he didn't "willingly" withhold them bc. It's almost like a "Not Guilty due to Insanity" verdict

Except in this case, the defendant is allowed to still be the POTUS instead of being confined for further evaluation.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:10 pm

swissvale72 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:53 pm
Not following this as closely as many of you, my impression is that Hur is completely non-political, and honestly said what he thought. I also think though, that his recommending that criminal charges NOT be instituted is that, as opposed to Trump, Biden cooperated. Or..is it not the case that that that was part of his rationale?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-bi ... -rcna96666
WASHINGTON — Special counsel Robert Hur has declined to prosecute President Joe Biden for his handling of classified documents but said in a report released Thursday that Biden’s practices “present serious risks to national security” and added that part of the reason he wouldn't charge Biden was that the president could portray himself as an "elderly man with a poor memory" who would be sympathetic to a jury.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:15 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:58 pm
Florida is a perfect example of voter fraud hiding in plain sight. For most of my life, it was a swing state that could go either way. Despite an influx of Hispanic voters and voters from the NE, it has become solidly Republican.

Every election night was the same story. The blue parts of the state would drag their heels counting votes until the rest of the state reported. It was the same area time and time again that would magically find the votes on election night after the polls closed that would pull the Democrats within the margin of victory.

Then DeSantis changed election commissioners and tightened election laws and - poof - the state went solidly red. Votes were suddenly reported on time across the board.

The rest of the country went in the opposite direction in 2020 as election laws were loosened. The new "normal" is it takes weeks to count votes and certify an election.

Pabst is the guy in the room on fire telling himself everything is fine.
1. This change was made in Florida as a result of the 2000 chaos. DeSantis had very little (if anything) to do with it, and I say this as a Desantis fan. Go look at 2018 - RDS was declared winner by 11:30 PM despite the margin being <1%.

2. No, I'm the guy telling you it was a bad idea to deep fry the Thanksgiving turkey on your stove top and that you shouldn't put out a grease fire with water.

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:30 pm

To recap, the GOP in Congress near unanimously passed a bill that threw money at states that allowed them to ramp up VBM. Trump signed the bill. Now you're crying foul that Dems did something that was within the confines of the law, while Trump was caught flat-footed.
If the argument is that the GOP is filled with useful idiots if not those actively harmful to the causes they claim to support, I have no problem with that. If the argument is that Trump was caught flat footed, I have no problem with that. If the argument is, as you have asserted for some time now, that Trump had no problem with the expansion of mail in voting and that he didn't say anything until after he lost (as you claimed previously in this thread), then I have very big objections.

There's a world of difference in these arguments.

Then there's the fact that the funding you are whining about with the CARES act was dwarfed by the money that flowed from Zuckerberg alone.

Trump couldn't have stopped that funding. You can try to spin that however you want, it would have been a losing battle and a huge PR hit over nothing because the expansion of mail in voting HAD to be done at the state level and required a series of battles in the courts. You refuse to even address the role the courts played across the country in all of this. Trump is not god emperor. He was a one term president who didn't even have the support of much of his own party in Congress.
- Losing in court
- Losing the Senate in the 2020 GA runoffs
- (Badly) underperforming in the 2022 midterms
1. I've already addressed the courts. They punted on the issue in an act of cowardice. There was almost no attempt to weigh the evidence presented.
2. The 2020 Georgia runoff could just as easily have been decided by the promise of more freebies the Democrats were offering (which Trump supported, anyway, but which McConnell was not on board with)
3. You want to attribute the 2022 midterms to Trump when the candidates he endorsed and campaigned for won, and the ones he didn't didn't? And fortification didn't end with the 2020 election. Not by a longshot.
Too many. But the vast majority of Americans believe 2020 was legit. Also the 20% number was in the direct aftermath of the election.
I'm reading your statement as "Democrats moved on. We haven't".
1. Despite massive resources being thrown at investigations into the matter, the full support of the mainstream media, the howling of the Democrats themselves and the support of the intelligence community , the narrative had crumbled.
2. I don't know what "move on" even means. They didn't stop talking about it. They used the Russia narrative as an excuse to reign in the social media platforms and crack down on free speech across the country. And there lies another underrated method by which the election was tilted in their favor. I've referenced the Twitter files repeatedly. Do we need to do a deep dive of the bullshit that was dug up? Of Twitter execs admitting that bureaucrats and Dems were asking for the suppression of American accounts?

And of course, the suppression of speech was broad. You couldn't even speak out against covid hysteria. Conservative thought was labeled hate speech across the board.

The Dems didn't move on from their 2016 claims. They weaponized them and retained that power DESPITE their claims being revealed as utter fictions.

You are comparing this to Republicans bitching about the 2020 election results?

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:37 pm

Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:15 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:58 pm
Florida is a perfect example of voter fraud hiding in plain sight. For most of my life, it was a swing state that could go either way. Despite an influx of Hispanic voters and voters from the NE, it has become solidly Republican.

Every election night was the same story. The blue parts of the state would drag their heels counting votes until the rest of the state reported. It was the same area time and time again that would magically find the votes on election night after the polls closed that would pull the Democrats within the margin of victory.

Then DeSantis changed election commissioners and tightened election laws and - poof - the state went solidly red. Votes were suddenly reported on time across the board.

The rest of the country went in the opposite direction in 2020 as election laws were loosened. The new "normal" is it takes weeks to count votes and certify an election.

Pabst is the guy in the room on fire telling himself everything is fine.
1. This change was made in Florida as a result of the 2000 chaos. DeSantis had very little (if anything) to do with it, and I say this as a Desantis fan. Go look at 2018 - RDS was declared winner by 11:30 PM despite the margin being <1%.

2. No, I'm the guy telling you it was a bad idea to deep fry the Thanksgiving turkey on your stove top and that you shouldn't put out a grease fire with water.
https://www.politico.com/states/florida ... tis-691675
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics ... index.html

It's been two election cycles since with no issue and sweeping GOP victories.

CKSteeler
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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:39 pm

An audit found that many Broward precincts reported more votes than the number of voters; confusing ballot design that likely caused some voters to skip a high-profile race; slow processing of absentee ballots that delayed results; and, poor coordination of the recounts in races for governor and U.S. Senate.

“We conclude that the November 2018 election was not efficiently and effectively conducted,” wrote Broward County Auditor Bob Melton. “Based on the totality of these issues, we are unable to provide assurance over the accuracy of the November 2018 election results as reported.”
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/ ... 669318002/

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:06 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:37 pm
Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:15 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:58 pm
Florida is a perfect example of voter fraud hiding in plain sight. For most of my life, it was a swing state that could go either way. Despite an influx of Hispanic voters and voters from the NE, it has become solidly Republican.

Every election night was the same story. The blue parts of the state would drag their heels counting votes until the rest of the state reported. It was the same area time and time again that would magically find the votes on election night after the polls closed that would pull the Democrats within the margin of victory.

Then DeSantis changed election commissioners and tightened election laws and - poof - the state went solidly red. Votes were suddenly reported on time across the board.

The rest of the country went in the opposite direction in 2020 as election laws were loosened. The new "normal" is it takes weeks to count votes and certify an election.

Pabst is the guy in the room on fire telling himself everything is fine.
1. This change was made in Florida as a result of the 2000 chaos. DeSantis had very little (if anything) to do with it, and I say this as a Desantis fan. Go look at 2018 - RDS was declared winner by 11:30 PM despite the margin being <1%.

2. No, I'm the guy telling you it was a bad idea to deep fry the Thanksgiving turkey on your stove top and that you shouldn't put out a grease fire with water.
https://www.politico.com/states/florida ... tis-691675
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics ... index.html

It's been two election cycles since with no issue and sweeping GOP victories.
Snipes was suspended by Rick Scott and resigned before DeSantis took office. Thanks for proving my point. Beyond that - Yes, she was a moron who couldn't perform her job. It's not a conspiracy - she was just an idiot (RIP).

Also, there were sweeping GOP victories in FL before 2022. Rubio has been elected in blowout fashion twice. Jeb! was election by 10+ twice. Florida Dem's are awful - It's why they had to pull Charlie Crist out of the tanning bed and turn him D....they had no other options

Speaking of Florida - Back in 2016 Marco Rubio outran Trump by ~6 points. This is literally my entire point - Normal Republicans outperform Trump across the board. You don't need to blame the Deep State Establishment for Trump losing - It's as simple as "he sucks and voters don't like him".

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:03 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:30 pm
Then there's the fact that the funding you are whining about with the CARES act
I'm whining about the Cares act? Where?

I'm just pointing out that everything you're claiming about being "stolen" was allowed via that bill. GOP was playing by the same rules as the Dems. You can accept that or not.
3. You want to attribute the 2022 midterms to Trump when the candidates he endorsed and campaigned for won, and the ones he didn't didn't? And fortification didn't end with the 2020 election. Not by a longshot.
Hershel Walker? Kari Lake? Dr Oz? You know, those candidates in actually competitive races that lost and cost the GOP control of the Senate? Those matter alot more than some random house seat in Alabama.

I can also point to plenty of others (JD Vance, for example) that vastly underperformed their GOP counterparts on the ballot.
1. Despite massive resources being thrown at investigations into the matter, the full support of the mainstream media, the howling of the Democrats themselves and the support of the intelligence community , the narrative had crumbled.
Yeah....sort of like all kinds of ongoing lawsuits and investigations by MAGA-land into 2020 that's produced jack shit.
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:30 pm
You are comparing this to Republicans bitching about the 2020 election results?
Yep! You're butthurt that you lost. Trump's pathetic ego can't handle it.

Have a nice evening.

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:24 pm

Thanks for proving my point
This change was made in Florida as a result of the 2000 chaos
Go look at 2018
Beyond that - Yes, she was a moron who couldn't perform her job.
What was your point, exactly? And DeSantis was highly critical of Snipes from the election up to his inauguration. And Snipes had a lawsuit against Scott's decision which was rendered moot by DeSantis's actions upon taking office (he rescinded Scott's firing, and instead accepted her resignation). So yea...you want to pin your argument on DeSantis having no say, go ahead. It's not like one of his first moves once in office was to fire another election supervisor who fucked up in 2018.
Speaking of Florida - Back in 2016 Marco Rubio outran Trump by ~6 points. This is literally my entire point - Normal Republicans outperform Trump across the board. You don't need to blame the Deep State Establishment for Trump losing - It's as simple as "he sucks and voters don't like him".
No, Marco Rubio did not outrun Trump by 6 points in 2016. And you want to cherry pick a few races while ignoring the apples to apples comparisons between presidential elections and the across the board victories the GOP had in two election cycles.
I'm just pointing out that everything you're claiming about being "stolen" was allowed via that bill. GOP was playing by the same rules as the Dems. You can accept that or not.
Congress does not determine the rules by which states run their elections The CARES Act did not "allow" the expansion of mail in voting. You can keep repeating that all you want and it won't make it anymore true.
Hershel Walker? Kari Lake? Dr Oz? You know, those candidates in actually competitive races that lost and cost the GOP control of the Senate? Those matter alot more than some random house seat in Alabama.
What do all three of those states have in common? Here's a hint - there was a major push to change their election laws between 2016 and 2020. And who the hell was the GOP alternative to any of them? And who picked those candidates? Did Trump sit in a room and say I want Herschel Walker representing the GOP, or did the GOP pick Walker and Trump sign on when it was clear he was the most pathetically viable option?

Trump endorsed 26 Senatorial candidates. 16 won.
Yeah....sort of like all kinds of ongoing lawsuits and investigations by MAGA-land into 2020 that's produced jack shit.
What jurisdiction is "MAGA-land"? What prosecutorial powers does anyone in MAGA land have? You are here citing Hurr. The closest thing Trump had was Durham who was a fucking hack.
Yep! You're butthurt that you lost. Trump's pathetic ego can't handle it.
Let me know when MAGA Republicans weaponize private corporations against their political enemies in an end-run around the constitution and then engages in years of lawfare against its political enemies, Pabst.

The only one butthurt is you. So blinded by Trump hate that you want to blame the guy for the sun setting at night. You want to make anything and everything bad that happens to the GOP some sort of ultimate referendum on Trump and Trumpism.

It can't be that Herschel Walker was a shitty candidate endorsed by Trump because there were sadly no other viable options put forth by the GOP. Or that the Dems spent years trying to change Georgia's election laws. Or that the promise of free shit in 2020 (which Trump endorsed, but which McConnel and the Senate Republicans did not) swayed voters in the runoff.

No. It's all Trump all the time in Pabst world.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:36 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:24 pm
No, Marco Rubio did not outrun Trump by 6 points in 2016.
Rubio won his race by 7.6%
Trump won his race by 1.2%.

7.6 - 1.2 = 6.4

Hence, Rubio outran Trump by 6 points

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:39 pm

Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:36 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:24 pm
No, Marco Rubio did not outrun Trump by 6 points in 2016.
Rubio won his race by 7.6%
Trump won his race by 1.2%.

7.6 - 1.2 = 6.4

Hence, Rubio outran Trump by 6 points
What percentage of the vote did each get?

Which brings me to another factor you don't seem to factor into anything anywhere at anytime. Incumbency. What happened to Trump in Florida in 2020?

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:42 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:24 pm
No. It's all Trump all the time in Pabst world.
Trump endorsed Walker in the Primary.

Also I have been pretty clear that I'd have voted for any Non-Trump GOP candidate in November.

I'm not obsessed with Trump at all....quite the opposite - I want him to go away as soon as possible

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:45 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:39 pm
Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:36 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:24 pm
No, Marco Rubio did not outrun Trump by 6 points in 2016.
Rubio won his race by 7.6%
Trump won his race by 1.2%.

7.6 - 1.2 = 6.4

Hence, Rubio outran Trump by 6 points
What percentage of the vote did each get?

Which brings me to another factor you don't seem to factor into anything anywhere at anytime. Incumbency. What happened to Trump in Florida in 2020?
52 for Rubio and 49 for Trump. So even by that metric he comfortably over performed Trump.

Rubio won his 2010 race by 19 points, so that disputes your other argument.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:47 pm

I'm thoroughly enjoying the Gish - Gallop approach you're taking, btw

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:28 pm

Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:45 pm
What percentage of the vote did each get?

Which brings me to another factor you don't seem to factor into anything anywhere at anytime. Incumbency. What happened to Trump in Florida in 2020?
52 for Rubio and 49 for Trump. So even by that metric he comfortably over performed Trump.

Rubio won his 2010 race by 19 points, so that disputes your other argument.
[/quote]

My argument is that races are unique and it's rather dubious to boil down the results to one single factor as you have attempted (which is...it's all Trump all the time, despite you totally not being obsessed or anything).

You answered the question, though, so kudos. It wasn't 6 points. It's kind of misleading to say he "outran" someone else when they gained 3% more of the vote share. Maybe a higher proportion of people voted for Hillary because they liked Hillary compared to the nothing who ran against Rubio. Maybe the race was viewed as more competitive. Maybe it was incumbency playing it's part.. Maybe it's because it was the presidency at stake and not a senate race Maybe maybe maybe.

There's like a dozen such factors to consider and it's misleading to say a guy who got 3% more of the vote share outran someone by 6 points. That's not a meaningful comparison between candiddates.

Of course, Trump grossly outperforms these other GOP candidates among GOP voters. Which is kind of important.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:38 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:28 pm
Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:45 pm
What percentage of the vote did each get?

Which brings me to another factor you don't seem to factor into anything anywhere at anytime. Incumbency. What happened to Trump in Florida in 2020?
52 for Rubio and 49 for Trump. So even by that metric he comfortably over performed Trump.

Rubio won his 2010 race by 19 points, so that disputes your other argument.
My argument is that races are unique and it's rather dubious to boil down the results to one single factor as you have attempted
[/quote]

So you've spent this entire thread arguing a point I never made. Cool.

Fact remains - When Trump and MAGA candidates routinely underperform other Republicans across multiple states and election cycles, that's a trend

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Post by CKSteeler » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:35 am

Pabst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:38 pm
Fact remains - When Trump and MAGA candidates routinely underperform other Republicans across multiple states and election cycles, that's a trend
You have cherry picked a handful of examples to try and make broad sweeping statements. In totality, Trump endorsed 26 candidates for Senate last election cycle. 16 won. Reducing that all to Trump, or even a few odd cases to him is just reductive.

You blamed Trump for Walker because he endorsed him in the primary. He was already the clear front runner when Trump did so and he won the primary with almost 70% of the vote. He's not responsible for the Georgia GOP's inability to field a legitimate candidate.

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Pabst
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Post by Pabst » Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:28 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:35 am
Fact remains - When Trump and MAGA candidates
You have cherry picked a handful of examples to try and make broad sweeping statements. In totality, Trump endorsed 26 candidates for Senate last election cycle. 16 won. Reducing that all to Trump, or even a few odd cases to him is just reductive.
No, I picked the competitive races that were lost by MAGA candidates. Those were the races that decided control of the Senate.

Again, I'll note that normal GOP candidates far outran the MAGA ones, particularly in AZ and GA.

You'll have to pardon me if I don't think Trump jumping in at the 11th hour to endorse a candidate up by 30 in the polls means anything

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:27 pm

The left is so Trump obsessed and sick that they can't even write a decent obituary:

https://www.nj.com/news/2024/03/trump-s ... -dies.html

Go All the Way is great power pop and the teen national anthem as far as I am concerned.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

Nietzsche

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Post by langer » Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:45 pm

This report from Hur is hilarious.

Is he acting or is he really this blown out. I so totally enjoy the same assholes who made fun of every Republican president as out to lunch and dumb have to vote for this old decrepit tapioca brain. It's truly "chef's kiss".

Safe to say he has no idea there are US hostages in Israel. Probably wouldn't give a shit even if he did.

They're gonna have to REALLY fortify the election.

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administra ... l-counsel/

"You left everything in place," Biden told Hur in reference to the special counsel’s search of his Delaware lake house. "I just hope you didn’t find any risqué pictures of my wife in a bathing suit. Which you probably did. She’s beautiful."

Biden didn’t stop there. He proceeded to provide the special counsel a history lesson on his struggles as a "frustrated architect" designing plans for the home as it was being built. Biden went into great detail about how he obtained its furnishings, including a "beautiful desk" he purchased during his brief career as an attorney prior to his election to the Senate in 1972.
During this tangent, Biden revealed a remarkable feat: He hit a target hundreds of yards away with a bow and arrow during a visit to Mongolia in August 2011.
"I’m not a bad archer," Biden said, after referring to Mongolian archers as "gorillas." "But … I hit the goddamn target."

""We had a really difficult professor," Biden recalled. "He called on me to—you know how they do in law school, discuss a case, you know, in your first torts class. And I had never read the case, and I stood up and I spoke for 10 minutes. The whole class stood up, started clapping."
Biden, who once falsely claimed he graduated at the top of his class from Syracuse Law School, failed a class after plagiarizing from a law review article about torts. That plagiarism scandal contributed to his failed presidential bid in 1987."

"So, we have to proceed with caution, but when you’re pursuing greatness, risk-taking is a part of it. Calculated risk-taking. That’s what you’re talking about when you’re drawing up big plays schematically.”

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:06 pm

And then Biden wowed the room by playing Giant Steps in all twelve keys after a deep staff discussion of how the underappreciated Turgerev inspired Dostoyevksy's major works.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

Nietzsche

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langer
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Post by langer » Fri Mar 15, 2024 1:16 am

HE SPLIT ATOMS WITH HIS MIND MAN
"So, we have to proceed with caution, but when you’re pursuing greatness, risk-taking is a part of it. Calculated risk-taking. That’s what you’re talking about when you’re drawing up big plays schematically.”

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Post by CKSteeler » Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:23 am

Pabst wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:28 pm
You'll have to pardon me if I don't think Trump jumping in at the 11th hour to endorse a candidate up by 30 in the polls means anything
Unless it's Herschel Walker in the GOP primary in which case that endorsement means everything.
Again, I'll note that normal GOP candidates far outran the MAGA ones, particularly in AZ and GA.
Kari Lake was cheated out of her election, too, for the record. And that joke of a trial? Yea, Arizona was basically the first state to get Californified. It's where the left basically tested the California model of stealing elections outside California and that what you are attributing to MAGA is going to be the start of a long term trend. It started in 2018. The senatorial races were the trial balloon for fortification nationwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrPTclw ... &index=176

California Dems have been pumping massive sums of dark money into Arizona to go along with the flood of Californians. Maricopa County was awash with Zuckerberg cash. And a state that used to brag about it's smooth mail-in-voting system and the ability to count 90% of its votes by election day took over a week to produce a result that contradicted all the pre-election day polling.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Tell me, Pabst - why can we no longer count all the votes by election day? Why is there a new normal where it takes weeks to count votes?

And the Arizona GOP is dominated by McCain's lackeys.

Watch the video till the end, Pabst. It will educate you on what MAGA really is. Trump may go, but he's just the spirit animal that animated the conservative base. He's the flaming pile of dog shit tossed onto the steps of DC by a fed up and unheard portion of the country. And despite being a 90's era Democrat with more flair, he was the most conservative Republican president you'll get in your lifetime.

Trump aint a cause, he's a symptom of a fundamentally broken system. And he could go away tomorrow. His voters aren't. Their inclinations aren't changing. You may think they're voiceless for a while, but eventually they'll make themselves heard again in a big way.

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langer
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Post by langer » Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:44 am

I know two women that were involved with the GOP in Michigan. Both were threatened with violence in Detroit when votes were being tallied. And of course, the GOP did nothing, just stood by.

Maybe they're lying, they are white after all.
"So, we have to proceed with caution, but when you’re pursuing greatness, risk-taking is a part of it. Calculated risk-taking. That’s what you’re talking about when you’re drawing up big plays schematically.”

CKSteeler
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Post by CKSteeler » Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:10 pm

langer wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:44 am
I know two women that were involved with the GOP in Michigan. Both were threatened with violence in Detroit when votes were being tallied. And of course, the GOP did nothing, just stood by.

Maybe they're lying, they are white after all.
We live in a world where sworn affidavits no longer count as legitimate forms of evidence. So the narrative demanded, so shall it be so.

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