Joe Biden Going All In on 'Bloodbath'

[Dan Smith--BYU]

OK Pabst, since you know how its done, tell us as President what you would have done to stop the virus that entered every country from getting to the US? Can't wait to hear this. Remember when the mainstream media told you Trump was a COVIDiot and that mainstream Cuomo was an example of COVID statesmanship?

And the solution to all of this in 2024 is therefore to elect the candidate who is bought off by the Chinese with bribes?

It's far easier to hoodwink someone than convince them that they've been hoodwink.

I was a DeSantis supporter six months ago. One of the reasons was age as well as his record in FLA. That didn't happen. Governors had a different role during COVID than the President. He is no longer a choice. The very fact that you brought up his name must indicate that he recognize how horrible the establishment is so there is hope for you. The fact that DeSantis is not the nominee is no reason to go with Biden who is the worst of the worst and not mentally fit to watch your dog for the weekend. Trump is old too but its an actuarial problem not a here and now problem.

Look if you want to keep trashing Jean Valjean during Les Miserables be my guest to mollify Joy Behar giving you the stinkeye, be my guest, most decent people will put aside whatever misgivings they have because of how unfairly he is being treated.

[Pabst]

I was a DeSantis supporter six months ago. One of the reasons was age as well as his record in FLA. That didn't happen. Governors had a different role during COVID than the President. He is no longer a choice. The very fact that you brought up his name must indicate that he recognize how horrible the establishment is so there is hope for you. The fact that DeSantis is not the nominee is no reason to go with Biden who is the worst of the worst and not mentally fit to watch your dog for the weekend. Trump is old too but its an actuarial problem not a here and now problem.

I brought up Desantis and Kemp specifically because Trump went after both for re-opening schools during COVID. Could you please address why Trump did that?

Trump has no grasp of policies or issues and is just a bomb thrower (figuratively)

[CKSteeler]

President Pabst wouldn't have a D after his name and would have been lambasted no matter what he did after covid. I'm not a fan of Trump's covid response because I would have done nothing. Only a Dem could have gotten away with that or anything, really.

Trump's presidency was doomed, to accept the premise that the 2020 election was legitimate for a moment, less by what he did in response to covid and more by the media's reaction to anything and everything he did. Whatever he chose to do, Trump was going to be wrong and the villain of that story.

But as Past has admitted, the media villify's the Republican no matter who they are.

[Pabst]

Just going to make this bold prediction as well - Whoever is the next President will face a recession. Everything about the current economy screams "bubble".
If Trump gets elected get ready for a repeat of 2008 in four years

[Pabst]

President Pabst wouldn't have a D after his name and would have been lambasted no matter what he did after covid. I'm not a fan of Trump's covid response because I would have done nothing. Only a Dem could have gotten away with that or anything, really.

Trump's presidency was doomed, to accept the premise that the 2020 election was legitimate for a moment, less by what he did in response to covid and more by the media's reaction to anything and everything he did. Whatever he chose to do, Trump was going to be wrong and the villain of that story.

But as Past has admitted, the media villify's the Republican no matter who they are.

Do you hear yourself?

Sure he sucked, but hey any Republican would have been criticized so let's nominate him again anyway.

Couldn't we....I dunno... Do better?

[CKSteeler]

Do you hear yourself?

Sure he sucked, but hey any Republican would have been criticized so let's nominate him again anyway.

Couldn't we....I dunno... Do better?

As someone who lived in Florida throughout the pandemic, I can tell you it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows with DeSantis, either. Rather, he had limited control and the larger media narrative drove the responses from private businesses and a number of institutions to where the situation still sucked. Blue counties still did what blue states did.

You wanted Trump to do less. Well, guess what Pabst? If Trump lost the election because of covid, he lost it because the media painted a picture of him as not doing enough. So President Pabst would have been out on his ass just the same while blue states locked down and tanked your economy all the same.

It wouldn't be that ridiculous for me to suggest that if Trump had gone all in on lockdowns and covid-theater, the nation would have been better off as the media would have simply planted their flag on the other side and painted Trump as a tyrant forcing him to back down. Would have done the same to President Pabst. That's how cynically I view the covid response.

You want to blame Trump for DeSantis losing to Trump. It couldn't be that DeSantis ran a shitty campaign where he failed to impress anyone. No, it must just be the cult of Trump winning the day.

My biggest issue with you is that you try and reduce every subject to being about Trump. You say you aren't obsessed, but none of us could tell the difference if you were.

[Pabst]

Do you hear yourself?

Sure he sucked, but hey any Republican would have been criticized so let's nominate him again anyway.

Couldn't we....I dunno... Do better?

As someone who lived in Florida throughout the pandemic, I can tell you it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows with DeSantis, either. Rather, he had limited control and the larger media narrative drove the responses from private businesses and a number of institutions to where the situation still sucked. Blue counties still did what blue states did.

You wanted Trump to do less. Well, guess what Pabst? If Trump lost the election because of covid, he lost it because the media painted a picture of him as not doing enough. So President Pabst would have been out on his ass just the same while blue states locked down and tanked your economy all the same.

It wouldn't be that ridiculous for me to suggest that if Trump had gone all in on lockdowns and covid-theater, the nation would have been better off as the media would have simply planted their flag on the other side and painted Trump as a tyrant forcing him to back down. Would have done the same to President Pabst. That's how cynically I view the covid response.

You want to blame Trump for DeSantis losing to Trump. It couldn't be that DeSantis ran a shitty campaign where he failed to impress anyone. No, it must just be the cult of Trump winning the day.

My biggest issue with you is that you try and reduce every subject to being about Trump. You say you aren't obsessed, but none of us could tell the difference if you were.

Didn't say it was all sunshine and rainbows. But what Desantis *did* do was open schools earlier than most and Trump lashed out at him for it. He also forced reopening earlier than most other states and banned mask mandates.....while, again, being attacked by Trump.

If you want to make the point that there's nothing Trump could have done re COVID, then fine. But please explain why Trump not only went after 2 governors that largely got it right, but praised Gov Cuomo and straight up lied about Florida & Georgia's COVID response during the primaries.

Lastly, this is "getting reduced to Trump" because this topic is about Trump running for president again.

[CKSteeler]

There is a cult of Trump that has at least one member. And it's Donald Trump. So, DeSantis ran against him so he became the villain. Cuomo said nice things about Trump briefly to get some kickbacks for NY so Trump praised Cuomo. Trump likes to pat himself on the back for Operation Warpspeed so vaccines are a good thing though he never went as far as endorsing mandates.

I have no problem admitting that Trump has no real principles. He's not even really an opportunist as much as a shameless self-promoter.

And my biggest hope is he wins the 2024 election (not with my vote - I don't vote), gets in office, and starts exacting sweet sweet revenge on the Democrats who abused their power to go after him. An angry Trump may very well be a more effective Trump as opposed to the version we had before where he naively thought he could work with Dems and produce deals and other such bullshit.

I think one lesson has stuck with the guy. The courtesies he extended to Hillary post-2016 will not be extended to him, so fuck them. Lock'em up if you can. Destroy them in other ways if you can't.

I want a vengeful fuck in office right now because that's what the left deserves and has coming to them. The best I'm going to get in that regard is Trump.

I'll repeat this, because you didn't really address it, but the left was "radicalized" well before Trump. The seeds were planted and sprouting before he burst onto the scene.

Maybe I have an easier time accepting this because my ideal candidates would never win anything regardless. But the best I'm going to get is flaming pile of dog shit Donald Trump with a little black book with a list of names he needs to get revenge on.

Lastly, this is "getting reduced to Trump" because this topic is about Trump running for president again.

You reduce EVERYTHING to Trump. Every god damn thing that happens to the GOP is not about Trump. And when DeSantis fails to beat Trump, that's on DeSantis. What do you expect Trump to do to his biggest threat in the GOP primary? Call him a swell fella and encourage people to vote for him?

Most Trump supporters don't hate DeSantis. They know what DeSantis did during covid. He's simply not the right guy for the moment here in the eyes of many.

[Pabst]

You reduce EVERYTHING to Trump. Every god damn thing that happens to the GOP is not about Trump. And when DeSantis fails to beat Trump, that's on DeSantis. What do you expect Trump to do to his biggest threat in the GOP primary? Call him a swell fella and encourage people to vote for him?

Most Trump supporters don't hate DeSantis. They know what DeSantis did during covid. He's simply not the right guy for the moment here in the eyes of many.

Because Trump is at the top of the ticket and candidates who have no other personality than wearing a MAGA hat make up too much of the party.

I expect Trump to 1. Not lie and 2. Not adopt left-wing talking points in order to score points on GOP opponents.

I'm "reducing everything to Trump" in the same way you're "reducing" everything on the left to Biden. Trump was President for 4 years. He's the head of the party. That's what he signed up for.

I don't like it. I don't like what the GOP has become, and I will vote (or not vote at all) accordingly.

[Pabst]

I have no problem admitting that Trump has no real principles. He's not even really an opportunist as much as a shameless self-promoter.

Cool.

I have a huge problem with this, and I would never vote for someone like this.

[K_C_]

Yeah and January 6th was a just a friendly tour of the Capitol.

I mean, considering 97% of the crowd DIDN'T enter the Capitol, it seems the established description is "mostly peaceful protest"

That’s the inbred take. Not shocked it’s yours too.

Like I said earlier, you probably believe your fellow mouth breathers who did enter the Capitol and ended up in Pelosi’s office and all out looking for members of Congress (obviously Democrat members of Congress) just wanted to have a civil debate with them.

Yeah, I’m sure that would have went down in a very peaceful manner.

[.Kodiak]

Yeah and January 6th was a just a friendly tour of the Capitol.

I mean, considering 97% of the crowd DIDN'T enter the Capitol, it seems the established description is "mostly peaceful protest"

That’s the inbred take. Not shocked it’s yours too.

Like I said earlier, you probably believe your fellow mouth breathers who did enter the Capitol and ended up in Pelosi’s office and all out looking for members of Congress (obviously Democrat members of Congress) just wanted to have a civil debate with them.

Yeah, I’m sure that would have went down in a very peaceful manner.

LOL, inbred is a big word for a guy like yourself.

And it's not what "inbreds" say, it's what your Dems and their media said about all the BLM riots. "Mostly peaceful protests". And there were a lot more weapons at those than Jan. 6th.

[.Kodiak]

Because Trump is at the top of the ticket and candidates who have no other personality than wearing a MAGA hat make up too much of the party.

Do they? The "MAGA" caucus is like 40 members. About 20% of the Republicans in the House.

20% too many but not even close to half, much less all, the party.

[Pabst]

Because Trump is at the top of the ticket and candidates who have no other personality than wearing a MAGA hat make up too much of the party.

Do they? The "MAGA" caucus is like 40 members. About 20% of the Republicans in the House.

20% too many but not even close to half, much less all, the party.

The MAGA caucus got the last speaker ousted and apparently want to try again. For....reasons.

Fair or not, I'm lumping the JD Vance's and Lindsay Grahams of the world into that number.

Also, it would be a lot more if these guys could actually win competitive elections.

[CKSteeler]

You reduce EVERYTHING to Trump. Every god damn thing that happens to the GOP is not about Trump. And when DeSantis fails to beat Trump, that's on DeSantis. What do you expect Trump to do to his biggest threat in the GOP primary? Call him a swell fella and encourage people to vote for him?

Most Trump supporters don't hate DeSantis. They know what DeSantis did during covid. He's simply not the right guy for the moment here in the eyes of many.

Because Trump is at the top of the ticket and candidates who have no other personality than wearing a MAGA hat make up too much of the party.

I expect Trump to 1. Not lie and 2. Not adopt left-wing talking points in order to score points on GOP opponents.

I'm "reducing everything to Trump" in the same way you're "reducing" everything on the left to Biden. Trump was President for 4 years. He's the head of the party. That's what he signed up for.

I don't like it. I don't like what the GOP has become, and I will vote (or not vote at all) accordingly.

What do I reduce to being about Joe Biden that isn't?

You blamed Trump for the left going batshit. For becoming radicalized. You don't see the issue there?

[CKSteeler]

That’s the inbred take. Not shocked it’s yours too.

Like I said earlier, you probably believe your fellow mouth breathers who did enter the Capitol and ended up in Pelosi’s office and all out looking for members of Congress (obviously Democrat members of Congress) just wanted to have a civil debate with them.

Yeah, I’m sure that would have went down in a very peaceful manner.

KC, few would say that nothing got out of hand on January 6th. I'm fairly certain the mob that mostly walked through the Capitol wouldn't have beaten Pelosi to death if they found her, but even if they had been worked up into such a state - that wasn't a planned anything. It wasn't an insurrection by any sane definition of an insurrection.

If even a few individuals in that crowd who weren't Feds had planned to launch an attack, they probably would have succeeded. A few armed and determined individuals. That's all it probably would have taken.

That group didn't exist. You won't acknowledge that because it undercuts your entire narrative that this was some big conspiracy on the part of Trump to inspire his voters to overthrow the US government on his behalf. Which is fucking lunacy supported by zero evidence.

Meanwhile, your sorry ass refuses to even acknowledge any of the leftwing violence that preceded January 6th.

What is it about the mindset of the lefties to where they think if they just ignore something happened and refuse to speak of it, it goes away in all of our memories? Sorry, but we all fucking remember the Summer Of Love. You can refuse to talk about it all you want, but it will continue to be thrown in your face.

[Pabst]

What do I reduce to being about Joe Biden that isn't?

You blamed Trump for the left going batshit. For becoming radicalized. You don't see the issue there?

I correlated the left going batshit wrt immigration to the rise of Trump. 2016 is a clear inflection point.

It's the same thing as the Pro-Russia / Anti-Ukraine sentiment among the Tucker Carlson crowd. It's just a pure contrarian reaction to what the other party is saying.

This is, once again, my entire issue with Trump - He won't solve shit and he'll just harden opposition.

[CKSteeler]

What do I reduce to being about Joe Biden that isn't?

You blamed Trump for the left going batshit. For becoming radicalized. You don't see the issue there?

I correlated the left going batshit wrt immigration to the rise of Trump. 2016 is a clear inflection point.

It's the same thing as the Pro-Russia / Anti-Ukraine sentiment among the Tucker Carlson crowd. It's just a pure contrarian reaction to what the other party is saying.

This is, once again, my entire issue with Trump - He won't solve shit and he'll just harden opposition.

They were already allowing everyone in under Obama. They were already producing white papers about "demographic destiny" guaranteeing Democratic majorities. So, not only did you note clearly say Trump radicalized them on a specific issue, but even with regards to that specific issue, it's not true.

Obama was lying about his deportation numbers. Goosing them to make it look like he was enforcing laws by changing the definition of things. But record numbers were crossing.

There's an entire thread to talk about Ukraine, but suffice to say it isn't some backlash to the Dems. Just like plenty of conservatives wante4d Trump to stay out o Syria. Plenty of people on the right are done with America world police and can recognize that what's happening in Ukraine is a result largely of us sticking our dicks where it didn't belong. It's not "pro-Putin." It's anti-American foreign policy establishment which is a fucking clown show.

[Pabst]

They were already allowing everyone in under Obama.

Border crossings were higher under Trump than Obama.

By your own argument, Trump is worse.

[CKSteeler]

They were already allowing everyone in under Obama.

Border crossings were higher under Trump than Obama.

By your own argument, Trump is worse.

My argument is that Obama changed how things were counted. So he could say he was deporting higher numbers while actually allowing more in. And the US government has no way of counting actual crossings. Only the number of "apprenhensions." Shockingly, the number of apprehensions - not actual crossings -went up under Trump slightly from the Obama years.

The illegal population grew by some 2.5 million under Obama in 8 years. The number decreased during the Trump years despite a far stronger economy and a supposed doubling of the apprehensions in 2018 (without which the Trump year apprehensions/crossings would be lower than the Obama years).

Of course, Trump ended catch and release policies implemented under Obama.

Explain to me, Pabst. How does the illegal population decline under one guy by like 1-2 million but go up 2.5 million under another if crossings are truly equal?

Now let's look at how the Obama admin goosed its numbers to make it look like they actually gave a shit about immigration.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

The shift in who gets tallied helped the administration look tough in its early years but now may be backfiring politically. Immigration advocates plan protests across the country this week around what they say will be the 2 millionth deportation under Obama — a mark expected to be hit in the next few days. And Democratic strategists fret about a decline in Latino voter turnout for this fall’s election.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called “voluntary returns,” but which critics derisively termed “catch and release.” Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s deportation statistics.

...


“If you are a run-of-the-mill immigrant here illegally, your odds of getting deported are close to zero — it’s just highly unlikely to happen,” John Sandweg, until recently the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in an interview.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ob ... story.html

Obama admin was lying, and people like you continue to repeat that lie years later.

You most likely know better. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on that regard. You just want to win an internet argument and don't care about reality.

[Pabst]

That's cool.

2019 border crossing were higher than at any time under Obama.

[.Kodiak]

My argument is that Obama changed how things were counted.

Sure, when the data disagrees with your narrative, just make shit up. Everyone does it these days.

You sound like people insisting 9/11 was an inside job, and when presented with science and facts they're talking out of their ass, claim it's a "cover up" or CIA coercion.

[.Kodiak]

That's cool.

2019 border crossing were higher than at any time under Obama.

but but but that's because Trump put up more cameras, which captured a higher count

Also, because Democrats believe a woman is entitled to an abortion even after giving birth, Obama changed the definition to exclude anyone under 5, as those kids could still potentially be aborted.

[CKSteeler]

My argument is that Obama changed how things were counted.

Sure, when the data disagrees with your narrative, just make shit up. Everyone does it these days.

You sound like people insisting 9/11 was an inside job, and when presented with science and facts they're talking out of their ass, claim it's a "cover up" or CIA coercion.

Dude. There's a link right there from the LA Times. Catch and release was pretty well fucking documented.

[CKSteeler]

That's cool.

2019 border crossing were higher than at any time under Obama.

That's cool. It means more of them were apprehended and deported. Shit was working.

Now explain what happened after Trump left office and all of his executive orders were rescinded.

[Pabst]

That's cool.

2019 border crossing were higher than at any time under Obama.

That's cool. It means more of them were apprehended and deported. Shit was working.

Now explain what happened after Trump left office and all of his executive orders were rescinded.

Your number is talking about deportations. I specifically said border crossings.

[CKSteeler]

That's cool.

2019 border crossing were higher than at any time under Obama.

That's cool. It means more of them were apprehended and deported. Shit was working.

Now explain what happened after Trump left office and all of his executive orders were rescinded.

Your number is talking about deportations. I specifically said border crossings.

Yea, if we start counting the number of people who would normally have been deported right at the border rather than released into the interior as crossings, your numbers are going to look higher.

Again, you seem confused on where the numbers for border crossings actually come from. Because while Kodiak is making jokes about some bullshit about cameras, the reality is that increased border security is, in fact, going to lead to more crossings because by definition border crossings are border apprehensions. And the Obama administration was counting people who normally would not have counted because they never would have been allowed in.

The number of people actually crossing the border was higher under Obama when removing the bureaucratic doublespeak. The number of people APPREHENDED at the border was higher under Trump.

[Pabst]

That's cool.

Border crossings were higher under Trump whether you want to accept it or not

[Pabst]

Kari Lake was literally sanctioned by the court for making shit up in her lawsuit, and CK is still on here claiming that she actually won.

What's the point in bothering.

[CKSteeler]

That's cool.

Border crossings were higher under Trump whether you want to accept it or not

Feel free to share with the class how you are defining a border crossing, Pabst.

Then we'll ask everyone else what they mean when they talk about someone crossing the border.

And we'll reiterate that the illegal population grew under one guy during a recession and shrunk under the other.