How many years did Cowher have a future HOF QB? I know Tomlin's had one every year....beerbrother wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:14 amInteresting.Stillerz Bar wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:15 pm
Tomlin
Reg season 145-78-1 (.650)
Playoffs 8-8 (.500)
AFCC 2-1
SB 1-1
Cowher
Reg season 149-90-1 (.623)
Playoffs 12-9 (.571)
AFCC 2-4
SB 1-1
Tomlin
Regular Season Games: 224 (14 Seasons)
Playoff Games: 16
Total # of Games: 240
Avg # Games/Season: 17.1
Total # Lost: 86
Avg # Lost/Season: 6.1
Cowher
Regular Season Games: 240 (15 Seasons)
Playoff Games: 21
Total # of Games: 261
Avg # Games/Season: 17.4
Total # Lost: 99
Avg # Lost/Season: 6.6
It appears that while Cowher won more playoff games he had a slightly higher average of losses per season. So we suffered watching the games with Cowher at coach slightly more that Tomlin. If that is actually possible.
Tomlin inks 3 year extension
Re: Tomlin inks 3 year extension
Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could see this coming. Art II appears to be a drunken imbecile unable to change with the times. It is what it is, as they say, obviously and so forth, if you will.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 100pit.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 100pit.htm
"So, we have to proceed with caution, but when you’re pursuing greatness, risk-taking is a part of it. Calculated risk-taking. That’s what you’re talking about when you’re drawing up big plays schematically.”
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Wait till Ben leaves we see what the genius does
And here's the thing about 2019 - won 3 or 4 with Mason, and then defenses had enough film and adjusted. The offense went from awful to invisible. Then in comes Duck, and they win like 4 games until defenses get enough film and adjust. The offense went from awful back to invisible.
Now those two are terrible. But the idea that Tomlin is going to squeeze out 8 wins with the typical NFL mediocre QB is a pipe dream. Unless he does something novel where he keeps changing QB's after 4 or 5 games.
This has been a pattern for several years now, with and without Ben, and on both sides of the ball. The team peaks/plateaus in November and then that's it. No answers.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Definitely understand the angst, but giving up hope on 2021, let alone '22 and '23 before I've even seen the draft... just can't do it. I mean, what'd even be the point of following?
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...
- Professor Half Wit
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The anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.
I mean, anxiety I get, but anxiety is not the color of this thread's hair.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...
The browns game was very reminiscent of the Jags game.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
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Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
I can understand that. I think it was the only playoff game in which the Steelers had Ben, Bell, Brown, and Bryant all on the field. The defense had its usual post-season choke job, but the Jags were a bad match-up for our D that year even with Shazier. Then losing Shazier ripped out their hearts. I don't understand why the Steelers seemed to be looking ahead and not taking the Jags seriously when the Jags had already beaten them earlier in the year.
For me, the last straw was the 2018 collapse. That slow-motion trainwreck highlighted every weakness and shortcoming in Tomlin's repertoire.
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Agree, Zeke.W&M_Steeler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:58 pmProfessor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
I can understand that. I think it was the only playoff game in which the Steelers had Ben, Bell, Brown, and Bryant all on the field. The defense had its usual post-season choke job, but the Jags were a bad match-up for our D that year even with Shazier. Then losing Shazier ripped out their hearts. I don't understand why the Steelers seemed to be looking ahead and not taking the Jags seriously when the Jags had already beaten them earlier in the year.
For me, the last straw was the 2018 collapse. That slow-motion trainwreck highlighted every weakness and shortcoming in Tomlin's repertoire.
W&M, the thing about the Jags loss was that no one expected the defense to be stout, especially not against Jax, but the sieve style defense was putrid.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.
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Definitely. I think Butler should have been shown the door with Haley after the Jags debacle. I was willing to give Tomlin one more chance with new coordinators, though. I wanted him gone after 2018. I think Tomlin's now in Jeff Fisher / Marvin Lewis territory, and I doubt the Steelers ever win about Super Bowl with him as HC.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:15 pmAgree, Zeke.W&M_Steeler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:58 pmProfessor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 am
The anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
I can understand that. I think it was the only playoff game in which the Steelers had Ben, Bell, Brown, and Bryant all on the field. The defense had its usual post-season choke job, but the Jags were a bad match-up for our D that year even with Shazier. Then losing Shazier ripped out their hearts. I don't understand why the Steelers seemed to be looking ahead and not taking the Jags seriously when the Jags had already beaten them earlier in the year.
For me, the last straw was the 2018 collapse. That slow-motion trainwreck highlighted every weakness and shortcoming in Tomlin's repertoire.
W&M, the thing about the Jags loss was that no one expected the defense to be stout, especially not against Jax, but the sieve style defense was putrid.
Uh....I don’t see Tomlin sniffing a SB game
Fucking guy can’t win a playoff game let alone make a playoff run
Box of rocks can out-scheme that clown
Fucking guy can’t win a playoff game let alone make a playoff run
Box of rocks can out-scheme that clown
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https://triblive.com/sports/mark-madden ... _top_pages
Yeah...I know it’s Madden, but tell me where he’s wrong.
Yeah...I know it’s Madden, but tell me where he’s wrong.
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jagoff! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad
Because we won't be paying top dollar to a QB.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you?
Since Ben was drafted in 2004, here is a full list of coach/QB combos that have more Super Bowl rings & appearances than Ben & Tomlin:
- Belichick & Brady
That's it.
Manning's 4 SB appearances (and 2 wins) have come with 3 different coaches on 2 different teams.
Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have one each. Russel Wilson has equaled Ben, but doesn't look like he'll reach the promised land anytime soon. Patrick Mahomes has equaled Ben, but let's see what he does now that he's taking up 20%+ of his team's cap.
Tomlin has his warts, and his postseason fuck ups have been well documented here. The issue I have is the standard being put forward is one that has only been achieved by the greatest QB in NFL history. If that is your expectation, then no shit you're going to be disappointed.
He was wrong in not being even more critical of our beloved dunce
Even the usual apologists and yes men at PPG are questioning this.
It's already absurd to extend a coach for 3 years when probably 31 other teams would have fired him. But when you already had him under contract for 2 years? That's when you start questioning the mental fitness of the head honcho.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
He was wrong in not being even more critical of our beloved dunce
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All fair, Pabst. But how many more seasons do we need in order to realize that Tomlin is not taking us back to the SB?Pabst wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:10 pmBecause we won't be paying top dollar to a QB.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you?
Since Ben was drafted in 2004, here is a full list of coach/QB combos that have more Super Bowl rings & appearances than Ben & Tomlin:
- Belichick & Brady
That's it.
Manning's 4 SB appearances (and 2 wins) have come with 3 different coaches on 2 different teams.
Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have one each. Russel Wilson has equaled Ben, but doesn't look like he'll reach the promised land anytime soon. Patrick Mahomes has equaled Ben, but let's see what he does now that he's taking up 20%+ of his team's cap.
Tomlin has his warts, and his postseason fuck ups have been well documented here. The issue I have is the standard being put forward is one that has only been achieved by the greatest QB in NFL history. If that is your expectation, then no shit you're going to be disappointed.
The Steelers have been wildly successful bc ownership does not shit itself and shit can the whole FO and coaching staff every five years.
But that does not mean that it is impossible to err by sticking with a coach for too long.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.
I don't think 31 other teams would have fired him. He won 12 games and a division title when most preseason pundits were looking at a 2nd of 3rd place finish, including many of the glass half empty crowd on Steelerfury. This after a pretty damn good coaching job the previous season when Ben was out.Kodiak wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:13 pmEven the usual apologists and yes men at PPG are questioning this.
It's already absurd to extend a coach for 3 years when probably 31 other teams would have fired him. But when you already had him under contract for 2 years? That's when you start questioning the mental fitness of the head honcho.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...
I think you are giving one of Cowher's SB appearance (and only victory) to Tomlin.Pabst wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:10 pmBecause we won't be paying top dollar to a QB.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you?
Since Ben was drafted in 2004, here is a full list of coach/QB combos that have more Super Bowl rings & appearances than Ben & Tomlin:
- Belichick & Brady
That's it.
Manning's 4 SB appearances (and 2 wins) have come with 3 different coaches on 2 different teams.
Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have one each. Russel Wilson has equaled Ben, but doesn't look like he'll reach the promised land anytime soon. Patrick Mahomes has equaled Ben, but let's see what he does now that he's taking up 20%+ of his team's cap.
Tomlin has his warts, and his postseason fuck ups have been well documented here. The issue I have is the standard being put forward is one that has only been achieved by the greatest QB in NFL history. If that is your expectation, then no shit you're going to be disappointed.
If you correct for just Tomlin, then you would add Eli / TC.
Apologies, forgot about Eli. I was going off of 2 SB appearances and 1 SB win for Tomlin. So Eli/TC equaled the number of appearances, but won both.zeke5123 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:02 pmI think you are giving one of Cowher's SB appearance (and only victory) to Tomlin.Pabst wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:10 pmBecause we won't be paying top dollar to a QB.Professor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you?
Since Ben was drafted in 2004, here is a full list of coach/QB combos that have more Super Bowl rings & appearances than Ben & Tomlin:
- Belichick & Brady
That's it.
Manning's 4 SB appearances (and 2 wins) have come with 3 different coaches on 2 different teams.
Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have one each. Russel Wilson has equaled Ben, but doesn't look like he'll reach the promised land anytime soon. Patrick Mahomes has equaled Ben, but let's see what he does now that he's taking up 20%+ of his team's cap.
Tomlin has his warts, and his postseason fuck ups have been well documented here. The issue I have is the standard being put forward is one that has only been achieved by the greatest QB in NFL history. If that is your expectation, then no shit you're going to be disappointed.
If you correct for just Tomlin, then you would add Eli / TC.
Side note on Eli - those two seasons ('07 and '11) were the only ones in his entire career where he won a playoff game.
Tomlin isn't much better. He has playoff wins in just 4 seasons, and that number would and should be just 3 if not for the tremendous generosity of the grossly incompetent Marvin Lewis and the Cincinnati Bungles.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
And the jets, bills, and dolphins haven't been generous to the Pats?
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
Ummm...he’s talking about the Burfict meltdown playoff gift.COR-TEN wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:41 pmAnd the jets, bills, and dolphins haven't been generous to the Pats?
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jagoff! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad
Ahh. Ok. Never mind then.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
We were very weak against the run and drew a team that ran the ball very well. Worst possible matchup. Ironically enough, we were better equipped to handle the Pats that year.W&M_Steeler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:58 pmProfessor Half Wit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 amThe anxiety seems to be that if you do squat with Ben for 10 years, why will the draft do anything for you? (If you can't win more with that guy in his prime, you're not winning more with anyone else, either.)
The Jax defensive collapse was the last straw for me. Even minus Shazier and plus some dregs off the street, the inability to adjust to put up any kind of resistance....wash rinse repeat.
I can understand that. I think it was the only playoff game in which the Steelers had Ben, Bell, Brown, and Bryant all on the field. The defense had its usual post-season choke job, but the Jags were a bad match-up for our D that year even with Shazier. Then losing Shazier ripped out their hearts. I don't understand why the Steelers seemed to be looking ahead and not taking the Jags seriously when the Jags had already beaten them earlier in the year.
For me, the last straw was the 2018 collapse. That slow-motion trainwreck highlighted every weakness and shortcoming in Tomlin's repertoire.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire
--Voltaire
But Tomlin's had a number of different OC's and DC's. Don't coordinators make adjustments throughout the season on their own without specific instruction from their HC? Or are you saying Tomlin specifically tells his coordinators not to make adjustments?Kodiak wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:15 amAnd here's the thing about 2019 - won 3 or 4 with Mason, and then defenses had enough film and adjusted. The offense went from awful to invisible. Then in comes Duck, and they win like 4 games until defenses get enough film and adjust. The offense went from awful back to invisible.
Now those two are terrible. But the idea that Tomlin is going to squeeze out 8 wins with the typical NFL mediocre QB is a pipe dream. Unless he does something novel where he keeps changing QB's after 4 or 5 games.
This has been a pattern for several years now, with and without Ben, and on both sides of the ball. The team peaks/plateaus in November and then that's it. No answers.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire
--Voltaire
Wait...are we assuming Tomlin knows about the need to make adjustments?
Ahhhh, yes, the potted plant defense.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!