Effin’ Ben...

[Thrillsseeker]

I usually agree and enjoy Posts by Scunge.
I’ll just kindly disagree on this one. As someone who has been thru major surgery and lived with serious pain for years, I’m hiving Ben Wednesdays off because he admitted he had had arm/elbow pain for years. Could easily explain Pouncys vet days off if he’s dealing with a knee or knees that are shot. Who knows, vet days off are overblown anyway.

[Jizz Mop]

I’m glad vets like Pouncey were given days off.

I mean, when you’re as experienced as he was and have totally mastered the “snap” to the QB, of course you can take days off.

We saw it immediately pay dividends vs Cleveland in the playoff game.

Tomlin is a genius...always stressing fundamentals.

[Stillerz Bar]

It's a cute stat, the playoff wins thing... and works nicely for your argument, but it's putting a false headline on the article. Ben Loses To Jaguars while defense gives up a Heinz Field record for playoff points. Also doesn't have much to do with what "taking Wednesdays off" actually means. I'd go with logic and assume that the practice schedule is built so there's not much going on in a Wednesday practice that a 10+ year vet needs to learn, and they can concentrate on film study, mental reps, giving tips to younger players, etc. My guess is you're assuming that all of the critical work preparing for the next game happens on Wednesdays, am I right?

Someone gets it.
The vet day off thing gets blown way over the top. I’m sure Ben and the others are there, sitting in on the meetings, film study, initial game plan installation.
Him standing on the sidelines while the team goes through a light walk through is meaningless to that weeks game prep.

I think the problem is that too many people (myself sometimes included) focus on one problem and don't remember that other things can also be true.

In the last two playoff games (both losses at Heinz)
.

• Ben & the Offense played well...at times.... and put up a lot of points - 42 & 37 should be enough to win

• Ben played poorly and his turnovers as well as decision making led directly to a lot of points for the Jags & Browns. (5 INTs, a fumble for a TD and whatever the snap over the head thing was from Pouncey where he stood there and watched the Browns jump on it for a TD).

• The Defense did not help - they couldn't make timely stops in either game and they had zero takeaways.

In short, it can be true both that Ben played badly and he played well. It's also true that he helped them score a lot of points and also was a big part of the reason scoring so many points wasn't enough to win.

The D on the other hand did not do near enough in either game to make up for the offensive problems and when the O finally did start clicking and got close, the D allowed the Jags & Browns to score just enough to keep out in front.

[blu]

Regardless of familiarity & past ability, I would hope that veterans practice more to make up for a decline in age's ability & vitality. Possibly not as intensely but still putting in the time. Similarity, we have new players & they all need to build on the connection with Ben. I never understand veteran's days off except for injuries & recall Warren Zevon's words - I'll sleep when I'm dead which he now is.

[Jizz Mop]

Regardless of familiarity & past ability, I would hope that veterans practice more to make up for a decline in age's ability & vitality. Possibly not as intensely but still putting in the time. Similarity, we have new players & they all need to build on the connection with Ben. I never understand veteran's days off except for injuries & recall Warren Zevon's words - I'll sleep when I'm dead which he now is.

I saw a werewolf drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect

[stinger8]

So if there are Bennonite's, what's the opposite? Roethlishaters?

This may shock you but I actually dont hate #7. I appreciate his contributions over the years, I believe he will be first ballot HOFer. I also believe he has warts predominantly selfish in nature IE riding a high performance motorcycle without a helmet carelessly, not working in the off season to be his best possible player, always taking every dollar possible to the detriment of the team etc. Lastly canonize him all you want, but his record in BIG games is not overly impressive. Its just not. The teams post season performance for the past decade under his leadership has been a major disappointment

I am on record as wanting to cut bait this year and starting the rebuild but since the team wants to give it the old college try I'll keep my fingers crossed, but its gonna be on #7 to perform at a high level, no excuses. If he surprises me and plays at a high level I will be glad to laud him, eat some crow, but if does not expect a few I told ya so's...... no excuses.

[Kodiak]

The last 3 playoff losses the defense started as badly as the offense. But we've heard repeatedly from Tomlin over the years about "easing in" or "probing" and so on. Mike Tyson had the famous quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". Tomlin's approach to these games is to come out taking punches, and usually doesn't start swinging until Q2.

This is mostly one quarter, and maybe a few minutes of Q2. There's only 3 games here the defense wasn't on pace to give-up 24+. For over a decade, Tomlin's team has come out flat on both sides of the ball damn near every playoff game.

Scores when PIT took their first possession in Q2. If the game ended after Q1, PIT is 4-7-1. They've fallen behind two scores, at some point, in at least half of these playoff games.
CLE 28-0
JAX 21-0
NE 10-0
KC 7-6
MIA 3-14
DEN 6-7
CIN 0-0
BAL 7-3
DEN 6-7
GB 14-0
NYJ 0-7
BAL 14-7

[stinger8]

The last 3 playoff losses the defense started as badly as the offense. But we've heard repeatedly from Tomlin over the years about "easing in" or "probing" and so on. Mike Tyson had the famous quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". Tomlin's approach to these games is to come out taking punches, and usually doesn't start swinging until Q2.

This is mostly one quarter, and maybe a few minutes of Q2. There's only 3 games here the defense wasn't on pace to give-up 24+. For over a decade, Tomlin's team has come out flat on both sides of the ball damn near every playoff game.

Scores when PIT took their first possession in Q2. If the game ended after Q1, PIT is 4-7-1. They've fallen behind two scores, at some point, in at least half of these playoff games.
CLE 28-0
JAX 21-0
NE 10-0
KC 7-6
MIA 3-14
DEN 6-7
CIN 0-0
BAL 7-3
DEN 6-7
GB 14-0
NYJ 0-7
BAL 14-7

Thanks Kodiak kind of proves my point lots of zero's a 3 a 6, only once did we have 14 first qtr points in big important put up or shut up situation. The guy making the big dough, the HOFer the guy who leads the offense coming up small in crunch time. We have discussed his S.B. performances ad nauseum (really loved the "he threw a great block to spring someone on a big play" as an example of him coming up big in a S.B). See if you want the adulation when things go well, then you have to take the heat when things go bad. Is it fair? maybe not but I see lots of Benablers on here polishing his scrotum when things go well but come up short... HC sucks, OC sucks, no QB coach, receivers cant catch, terrible O line, worst TE staff in the league etc etc etc. My suggestion be objective see the situation as it is, not as you wish it was or want it to be... Jack Welch

[sinceiwas4]

i neither adore nor hate Ben. i also don't blame him entirely or give him all the credit for our post season success earlier on in his career, or the recent lack of post season success the team has had. always all or nothing on here about everything lol i guess that drives the discussion, and taking a pov and defending it is kinda what a forum is all about really. but, the truth is always more grey than b&w. anyway, i had to respond in regards Ben's superbowl positive plays amounted to his blocking someone once? so that final drive that ended with one of the greatest plays in superbowl history was all Santonio, i guess? so weird to me to erase all the good Or all the bad about a guy. overall i'd say having Ben has been a good run for the team ups and downs along the way for sure, but c'mon, all he gave us in the superbowls was a block?!?! ffs

[stinger8]

i neither adore nor hate Ben. i also don't blame him entirely or give him all the credit for our post season success earlier on in his career, or the recent lack of post season success the team has had. always all or nothing on here about everything lol i guess that drives the discussion, and taking a pov and defending it is kinda what a forum is all about really. but, the truth is always more grey than b&w. anyway, i had to respond in regards Ben's superbowl positive plays amounted to his blocking someone once? so that final drive that ended with one of the greatest plays in superbowl history was all Santonio, i guess? so weird to me to erase all the good Or all the bad about a guy. overall i'd say having Ben has been a good run for the team ups and downs along the way for sure, but c'mon, all he gave us in the superbowls was a block?!?! ffs

The pass to Santonio was one of the greatest big moment plays in super bowl history. In fact on the play before he threw another beauty that Holmes dropped. Incredible big moment play, both the throw and the catch.

Interestingly a probably bigger play by James Harrison, what with taking a touchdown away and then running 100 yards for a score on the last play (I think) of the half, 14 point swing, is in my opinion a greater single play, yet when his time ended in Pittsburgh a dozen or more "fans" on this site were incredibly disrespectful to one of the best OLB's in Steeler HISTORY. Dude makes a truly incredible super bowl all time play yet "fans" shit on him in the end. Funny how that goes.

[El Kabong]

i neither adore nor hate Ben. i also don't blame him entirely or give him all the credit for our post season success earlier on in his career, or the recent lack of post season success the team has had. always all or nothing on here about everything lol i guess that drives the discussion, and taking a pov and defending it is kinda what a forum is all about really. but, the truth is always more grey than b&w. anyway, i had to respond in regards Ben's superbowl positive plays amounted to his blocking someone once? so that final drive that ended with one of the greatest plays in superbowl history was all Santonio, i guess? so weird to me to erase all the good Or all the bad about a guy. overall i'd say having Ben has been a good run for the team ups and downs along the way for sure, but c'mon, all he gave us in the superbowls was a block?!?! ffs

That has more to do with his performance in Super Bowl XL where he admittedly didn't do much through the air. But I have pointed out other plays Ben made that game to help the team win including, yes, throwing a nice block on a key play for a first down. But you are correct, both in XL and XLIII Ben made plays to help the team win so that his contributions ought not be boiled down to making a block.

[El Kabong]

i neither adore nor hate Ben. i also don't blame him entirely or give him all the credit for our post season success earlier on in his career, or the recent lack of post season success the team has had. always all or nothing on here about everything lol i guess that drives the discussion, and taking a pov and defending it is kinda what a forum is all about really. but, the truth is always more grey than b&w. anyway, i had to respond in regards Ben's superbowl positive plays amounted to his blocking someone once? so that final drive that ended with one of the greatest plays in superbowl history was all Santonio, i guess? so weird to me to erase all the good Or all the bad about a guy. overall i'd say having Ben has been a good run for the team ups and downs along the way for sure, but c'mon, all he gave us in the superbowls was a block?!?! ffs

The pass to Santonio was one of the greatest big moment plays in super bowl history. In fact on the play before he threw another beauty that Holmes dropped. Incredible big moment play, both the throw and the catch.

Interestingly a probably bigger play by James Harrison, what with taking a touchdown away and then running 100 yards for a score on the last play (I think) of the half, 14 point swing, is in my opinion a greater single play, yet when his time ended in Pittsburgh a dozen or more "fans" on this site were incredibly disrespectful to one of the best OLB's in Steeler HISTORY. Dude makes a truly incredible super bowl all time play yet "fans" shit on him in the end. Funny how that goes.

Keep in mind the context. Harrison was unhappy with his role on the team and how he was being used or not used. Reportedly, he would engage in passive aggressive behavior including sleeping during meetings and refusing to mentor younger linebackers. He was one of a number of players who found that if they bitch enough and make enough of a nuisance of themselves, they can be released to go to another team. The fact that he did that does not sit well. The fact that he then ended up on the hated Patriots does not sit well. The fact that he got to go to a Super Bowl after getting himself released from the Steelers that way does not sit well. It's not like people have no reason to be upset.

I personally love him for all the contributions he made and for that one special super bowl play, and I am willing to forget all the stuff at the end, but it's not like he was an angel and it's a total mystery why anyone would be mad at him.

[blu]

If Harrison was willing, I would him bring him back to work with the players on conditioning & weight training (if only with Big Ben but of course with the others) & help with the linebackers. James Harrison's intensity would be a welcome addition to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Regardless of familiarity & past ability, I would hope that veterans practice more to make up for a decline in age's ability & vitality. Possibly not as intensely but still putting in the time. Similarity, we have new players & they all need to build on the connection with Ben. I never understand veteran's days off except for injuries & recall Warren Zevon's words - I'll sleep when I'm dead which he now is.

I saw a werewolf drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect

Steelers needs: Lawyers, guns, and money

[El Kabong]

Regardless of familiarity & past ability, I would hope that veterans practice more to make up for a decline in age's ability & vitality. Possibly not as intensely but still putting in the time. Similarity, we have new players & they all need to build on the connection with Ben. I never understand veteran's days off except for injuries & recall Warren Zevon's words - I'll sleep when I'm dead which he now is.

I saw a werewolf drinkin' a piña colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect

Steelers needs: Lawyers, guns, and money

...get us out of this...

[Kodiak]

Thanks Kodiak kind of proves my point lots of zero's a 3 a 6, only once did we have 14 first qtr points in big important put up or shut up situation.

No, I think it proves your point is misguided.

If there were more inconsistency or variance on the offensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. If the story wasn't pretty similar on the defensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

No, the shitty starts, pretty consistently on both sides of the ball, CLEARLY point to a philosophy of "easing in" and "probing" to see what the other team is going to do. As opposed to, you know, coming up with a good plan to be the one punching in the mouth instead of the one GETTING punched in the mouth.

Those scores CLEARLY show Tomlin's overly conservative approach. And even though the data tells us this, we don't have to guess as Tomlin has told us as much more than a few times. EVERY FUCKING TIME Tomlin is going to come out wanting to establish the run, control clock, and set-up for a battle of attrition. Most playoff teams have the talent and coaching to exploit this to their advantage. That's what those Q1 results tell me.

[Jobu]

Thanks Kodiak kind of proves my point lots of zero's a 3 a 6, only once did we have 14 first qtr points in big important put up or shut up situation.

No, I think it proves your point is misguided.

If there were more inconsistency or variance on the offensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. If the story wasn't pretty similar on the defensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

No, the shitty starts, pretty consistently on both sides of the ball, CLEARLY point to a philosophy of "easing in" and "probing" to see what the other team is going to do. As opposed to, you know, coming up with a good plan to be the one punching in the mouth instead of the one GETTING punched in the mouth.

Those scores CLEARLY show Tomlin's overly conservative approach. And even though the data tells us this, we don't have to guess as Tomlin has told us as much more than a few times. EVERY FUCKING TIME Tomlin is going to come out wanting to establish the run, control clock, and set-up for a battle of attrition. Most playoff teams have the talent and coaching to exploit this to their advantage. That's what those Q1 results tell me.

I have to agree.

[Jizz Mop]

In summary

Tomlin is a fucking idiot who more often than not is in over his head

He won w Cowher’s team

<drops mic>

[Jobu]

Tomlin is a fucking idiot ...

Coulda stopped there.

[Kodiak]

He won w Cowher’s team

Just to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's"....

Tomlin's only SB win was thanks to a GOAT defensive play, a GOAT throw and a GOAT catch....with thanks to a HOF DC....and Whizenhunt being a bigger, pussier dumbass. Hasn't really accomplished jack, but at least he's never had a losing season.

It's like, literally, being carried to a championship while kicking everyone in the nuts along the way (to great fanfare). And then receiving unlimited fellatio for not having fucked things up.

Really think about that - Tomlin was carried to his only championship, a SB they won with a number of historic plays. And he's still riding that lone achievement 12+ years later...

[SteelerDayTrader]

Everything falls on the HC at the end of the day but Tomlin wasn’t the only one in the organization who got burned by Bell Brown Shazier etc

Being completely honest the single biggest mistake was not standing up for Bruce Arians who might still be here if not for A2.

Factor in some really inopportune injuries at the worst possible times and you get what you get.

Not going for it on 4th down in the Browns playoff loss was pretty bad

I’m not sure there are a lot of coaches who could’ve done much better than Tomlin given the Steelers built in dysfunctionality

As of right now and for several seasons running the Steelers are the smallest scouting department/coaching staff in the NFL. When ownership cheaps out because they can in a trillion dollar industry your competition gets an advantage

The Steelers drafting has been REAL bad for many years now. That kind of thing is hard to overcome.

[stillthere]

Being completely honest the single biggest mistake was not standing up for Bruce Arians who might still be here if not for A2.

Neither Arians or Tomlin would still be here if Arians had been retained. Ben would have been injured and retired by now and neither would still be a coach in Pittsburgh.

[stinger8]

Thanks Kodiak kind of proves my point lots of zero's a 3 a 6, only once did we have 14 first qtr points in big important put up or shut up situation.

No, I think it proves your point is misguided.

If there were more inconsistency or variance on the offensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. If the story wasn't pretty similar on the defensive side, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

No, the shitty starts, pretty consistently on both sides of the ball, CLEARLY point to a philosophy of "easing in" and "probing" to see what the other team is going to do. As opposed to, you know, coming up with a good plan to be the one punching in the mouth instead of the one GETTING punched in the mouth.

Those scores CLEARLY show Tomlin's overly conservative approach. And even though the data tells us this, we don't have to guess as Tomlin has told us as much more than a few times. EVERY FUCKING TIME Tomlin is going to come out wanting to establish the run, control clock, and set-up for a battle of attrition. Most playoff teams have the talent and coaching to exploit this to their advantage. That's what those Q1 results tell me.

I think one big difference in attitude from Benonites to others (me and KC) is that when things go bad there seems to always be a plethora of excuses from the Benablers, while the other side tends to hold #7 accountable when he struggles. You are free to believe that it is Tomlins fault when your messiah struggles, I think that attitude is misguided. Like all people sometimes #7 just does not have it, or if he put in some more work physical and mental he may have had enough to pull out some tough losses over the years. I have for a long time have had a real problem with his commitment in the off season arriving fat as fuck to camp. Very hard to give someone making $20MM, who is not committed the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunate fact 3 playoff wins in 11 years, that's half his career, that's just not good enough and excuses are for losers.

[Kodiak]

Everything falls on the HC at the end of the day but Tomlin wasn’t the only one in the organization who got burned by Bell Brown Shazier etc

Well, Bell, Brown, Santonio, Dookie, maybe even Harrison at the end...how much of that had to do with a HC who's idea of leadership is based on enabling?

As for Arians, I think he's proven to be a much better HC than he was as OC.

[Kodiak]

I think one big difference in attitude from Benonites to others (me and KC)

LMAO. KC has been calling for Ben to retire for 5+ years. Being aligned with KC doesn't really help your case, like ever.

No one is saying Ben hasn't been awful in some of those games. But he's not the only one that comes out sleepwalking. It's a team problem, and that goes back to the HC. When you have a shitty plan, players press and make mistakes as a result. You come out with a shit plan and you make it easier for the other team to make plays, too.

Despite how Ben started some of those games, the shackles came off and he brought the team back in many of them. But it was the defense that couldn't get a critical stop when they needed it. Last I checked, Ben doesn't play defense but Tomlin does run it.

[Thrillsseeker]

If only I had a fucking dollar for every time someone comments about Ben and his weight or lack of prep in the offseason.

Good lord its one of the most idiotic shit that gets posted here.

You have no fucking clue and I award you no points and we are all dumber for listening to this rambling.

[Ice]

If only I had a fucking dollar for every time someone comments about Ben and his weight or lack of prep in the offseason.

Good lord its one of the most idiotic shit that gets posted here.

You have no fucking clue and I award you no points and we are all dumber for listening to this rambling.

I think KC and Stinger's obvious insider information on not only how the Steelers weekly practice schedule works, but also exactly how much film Ben watches both in-season and during the off-season, as well as his personal workout habits and regimen is impressive. I mean, it's definitely that and not agenda and media driven speculation, right?

[RemoAZ]

Being completely honest the single biggest mistake was not standing up for Bruce Arians who might still be here if not for A2.

Neither Arians or Tomlin would still be here if Arians had been retained. Ben would have been injured and retired by now and neither would still be a coach in Pittsburgh.

Exactly.

[El Kabong]

He won w Cowher’s team

Just to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's"....

Tomlin's only SB win was thanks to a GOAT defensive play, a GOAT throw and a GOAT catch....with thanks to a HOF DC....and Whizenhunt being a bigger, pussier dumbass. Hasn't really accomplished jack, but at least he's never had a losing season.

It's like, literally, being carried to a championship while kicking everyone in the nuts along the way (to great fanfare). And then receiving unlimited fellatio for not having fucked things up.

Really think about that - Tomlin was carried to his only championship, a SB they won with a number of historic plays. And he's still riding that lone achievement 12+ years later...

And you know for a FACT that Tomlin did not contribute IN ANY WAY to the Steelers winning Super Bowl XLIII. Please do reveal who your close personal friend inside the Steeler organization is who can verify this.

[Ice]

All the defensive players interviewed after XLIII credited the result of Harrison's interception to the fact that Tomlin had spent extra time with them working on downfield blocking after a turnover in the weeks leading up to the game. So there was that one little thing. Didn't end up making that big of a difference in the outcome, though.