2019

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

If the rebuild would have began as it should have after Ben blew his elbow out and the Steelers dropped to 0-2, this team would already be two years into reshaping the franchise, possibly with a new franchise QB already at the helm. Then the team traded that pick for Minkah Fitzpatrick, doubling down on win now by trading what would have been a premium first round pick for a safety.


We are all seeing the results of that delay. The team compounded and tripled down on that by selecting a RB and TE in the first two rounds of this past draft.

Don't worry. They have Minkah though! Great trade.
People are still so confused by how Minkah can be a bad trade. They didn't get it then. They don't get it now. Miserable team that's only treading water before slowly succumbing to the ocean.

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

True, they'd have that pick...

and they would have nobody at safety... so a pick would have had to be used on a safety.

I think other posts have nailed it - what really really hurt this team was losing Shazier. The chain reaction to that started the spiral. Bush might not even be an average MLB.... the capital given up and the pick itself to take him might as well have just vanished.

Its one thing to miss at 23 or 22... it's another to spend picks to move up and miss at 10.

[Steelperch]

So in 2019 instead of drafting Devin Bush they’d have taken the top available QB. If that’s the case our new stud franchise QB would be Dwayne Haskins right now. Or if they didn’t trade for Minkah and stayed out and taken the top QB they’d have Jordan Love. Clearly a SB favorite and 2 years ahead in the rebuild with either of those moves, right?

[SteelPro]

So in 2019 instead of drafting Devin Bush they’d have taken the top available QB. If that’s the case our new stud franchise QB would be Dwayne Haskins right now. Or if they didn’t trade for Minkah and stayed out and taken the top QB they’d have Jordan Love. Clearly a SB favorite and 2 years ahead in the rebuild with either of those moves, right?

I’m not saying I agree with the original post, but had they truly tanked after Ben’s injury in 2019 that would have given them a much higher 2020 pick. Maybe Justin Herbert would have been in play.

[Ice]

Some serious dead cow colonoscopy going on here. I do wish Shaz had stuck around, but the point about the what ifs... we're trusting this group of coaches and evaluators to draft and develop the imaginary picks in this scenario?

We have Minkah, instead of a first rounder. The last first rounder spent on a safety was...? Not sure feeding Tombert multiple first round picks is any better than feeding them to Gruden/Mayock was.

[W&M_Steeler]

True, they'd have that pick...

and they would have nobody at safety... so a pick would have had to be used on a safety.

I think other posts have nailed it - what really really hurt this team was losing Shazier. The chain reaction to that started the spiral. Bush might not even be an average MLB.... the capital given up and the pick itself to take him might as well have just vanished.

Its one thing to miss at 23 or 22... it's another to spend picks to move up and miss at 10.

I agree. In hindsight, I think Shazier's injury closed the window for the 2010s-era Steelers. The 2017 team was the last Steelers team that was a real Super Bowl contender, and it was the only Steelers team to earn a first-round bye since Super Bowl XLV. Ben was still at the edge of his prime, and the offense was still loaded. While not outstanding, the defense with Shazier was good enough to win. The divisional round game against the Jags was the only playoff game in which Ben, Bell, Brown, and Bryant all played. JuJu played as well. That iteration of the Jags was a tough match-up for that Steelers team, but I think the Steelers would have pulled through with Shazier instead of Sean Spence.

Everything after 2017 has been a decline- Bell's 2018 hold-out, the 2018 team's epic collapse, AB losing his mind and forcing his way out, Ben's elbow injury and the 2019 Mason/Duck show, the 2020 mirage and collapse. We're now left with this- a talent-depleted team with no reasonable hope for the future. Maybe things would have gone differently if Shazier were still playing. At the very least, I think 2017 and 2018 would have turned out better.

[Greeksteel]

I thought at the time the Minkah trade was a major blunder, and i've seen nothing since that tells me i was wrong. Without minkah, i think Justin Herbert was definitely in play. Whether our moronic FO would have taken him or not, thats a totally separate issue.

[bradshaw2ben]

I thought at the time the Minkah trade was a major blunder, and i've seen nothing since that tells me i was wrong. Without minkah, i think Justin Herbert was definitely in play. Whether our moronic FO would have taken him or not, thats a totally separate issue.

Do you think the Steelers scots have ever seen a West Coast team play? I'm sure JuJu was drafted based on a referral from Lynn Swann or something.

[Greeksteel]

I thought at the time the Minkah trade was a major blunder, and i've seen nothing since that tells me i was wrong. Without minkah, i think Justin Herbert was definitely in play. Whether our moronic FO would have taken him or not, thats a totally separate issue.

Do you think the Steelers scots have ever seen a West Coast team play? I'm sure JuJu was drafted based on a referral from Lynn Swann or something.

I dont disagree with this, but Herbert was in play without Minkah, doubling down on the season with MR was beyond dumb and most of us knew it.

This FO needs to be blown up so bad, time to turn the page.

[Orangesteel]

They took Wheaton and DeCastro. But I totally agree. They would have had a 3rd round grade on Herbert whereas they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph.

[Greeksteel]

They took Wheaton and DeCastro. But I totally agree. They would have had a 3rd round grade on Herbert whereas they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph.

whats crazy is that this is more than a definite possibility

[yygy]

My position has been Steelers should have acquired a top qb in the 18-20 timeframe. Not that I have a huge issue with any individual pick during that time. More so just qb is that important.

Hate to use the bengals as a model but they’re doing it right. You see the run game but the reason it works for them is they have every other phase working. They got the blocking the wr screen game deep ball all the TE routes. They have a fully functional O, or as you might say balanced. It’s built around qb. That’s what sets them up for success.

I get Steelers thinking. Bens retirement talk should’ve been a flag and probably was. Tricky situation. Win now or transition. 2019 D was good enough. 2020 showed the cracks

20/21 was about the end of the line in my mind for Ben.

There are two ways to win in the nfl today. Do the hard work to build an O like the bengals and other currently successful teams, or go island of lost toys like Arians and LA and a few others.

I’d take either. They have some other idea IDK I see bottom half of AFCN till they prove otherwise. We’ll see. Big off-season coming up. Basically competitiveness for the 20s on the line.

[steelmann58]

spot on losing Ryan and forcing the Steelers FO to over react to draft Bush sent this team back

[tbsteel]

The Minkah trade was still a smart move. Steelers fans have been crowing about that move for two years and now we're trying to push some revisionist history? Nah, that was a damn good move regardless of how this year has gone. And this board would have lost their collective f'n minds if we drafted a QB in the first anytime before this past draft. Hell, I remember drafting Justin Herbert in the mid 20s in our board mock because everyone here hates QBs.

And the Bengals have been doing it right? You mean having 5 years where they're lucky if they get to 6 wins, bottom out at 2-14, draft #1 overall to draft the obvious star QB coming off arguably the best college football season anyone has ever had, and then destroy the kid's knee in his first season because they had no o-line and were fine with him passing 50+ times a game? All just so they get can get to 7-4 this year and probably make the playoffs?

Yeah, that's the ticket! Sign me up for 5 years of that.

[yygy]

Yeah bengals clearly superior to Steelers, tb. Two games this season both over by halftime.

If they played 7 more times this season I’d put money on them to win 6.

Next year without major changes no reason to believe Steelers aren’t fighting for #3 in AFCN

[Ice]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

[DP39]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

That's what a competent HC/coaching staff will get you.

Ever watch a Belicheat presser? While he's certainly weird at times, he'll also give you a very detailed answer that shows a superior knowledge of the game he's coaching. Tomlin, on the other hand, does what BSers do best.....almost always speaks in clichés. When was the last time you saw him go into real depth speaking about anything Xs & Os? But, ask him to share an amusing story about one of his buddies? He opens up and lights up like he lives for that shit. Again, it's what he's best at....using his mouth...not his football IQ.

I've been over his crap for many years; some are finally seeing the light. Hopefully Deuce has gotten there, too. Wishful thinking, I know.

[Deebo]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

What's maddening comparing the two situations is that all the Pats did was simply accept the reality they were in last year with all the covid voluntary absentees and shifted to doing what was best for future seasons. They experimented with Cam, realized he didn't have much left, which then gave them the go ahead to dedicate their 1st to whatever QB fell to them. Then coming into this season they had returning players from Covid, roll over cap space they cleared out/didn't use last year, spent wisely and developed their new QB correctly, and they're right back in the thick of contention. All because they looked reality in the face, accepted it, and adapted.

The Steelers in comparison, looked at the decline of the last couple years, looked at who they lost this offseason, the absurd schedule this year, and despite everything pointing to a real struggle incoming, instead of properly preparing the organization for a rebuild, they somehow convinced themselves they could still attempt to compete for something in Ben's last year.

Just an offensive lack of awareness, or worse arrogance.

[blu]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

What's maddening comparing the two situations is that all the Pats did was simply accept the reality they were in last year with all the covid voluntary absentees and shifted to doing what was best for future seasons. They experimented with Cam, realized he didn't have much left, which then gave them the go ahead to dedicate their 1st to whatever QB fell to them. Then coming into this season they had returning players from Covid, roll over cap space they cleared out/didn't use last year, spent wisely and developed their new QB correctly, and they're right back in the thick of contention. All because they looked reality in the face, accepted it, and adapted.

The Steelers in comparison, looked at the decline of the last couple years, looked at who they lost this offseason, the absurd schedule this year, and despite everything pointing to a real struggle incoming, instead of properly preparing the organization for a rebuild, they somehow convinced themselves they could still attempt to compete for something in Ben's last year.

Just an offensive lack of awareness, or worse arrogance.

Yes, but the NE head coach is smart & ours is not.

[Steelperch]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

How did the Patriots get good?

Let the high dollar veterans walk.
Sucked for a year
Signed a shit load of solid FAs
Had a franchise QB fall in their lap

Looks like a blueprint.

[Ice]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

How did the Patriots get good?

Let the high dollar veterans walk.
Sucked for a year
Signed a shit load of solid FAs
Had a franchise QB fall in their lap

Looks like a blueprint.

I'll take lumps for a year if we can pull it off.

[Orangesteel]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

How did the Patriots get good?

Let the high dollar veterans walk.
Sucked for a year
Signed a shit load of solid FAs
Had a franchise QB fall in their lap

Looks like a blueprint.

Pats also had the benefit of last year’s QB class being absurdly deep. And as of now they probably have the best rookie QB operating in Belicheck’s mastermind system, which does Mac Jones a lot of favors.

But yes, you need to be in position to rebuild first. And we are hanging on to not being in that position.

[955876]

this team would already be two years into reshaping the franchise, possibly with a new franchise QB already at the helm.

Jibba Jabba isn’t capable of the task though.

I don’t want who he thinks is our future franchise QB.

I don’t want the players he wants to build around.

He opinion is no longer valid.

Until this turd is flushed we will continue to smell shit.

Regardless whether we are “rebuilding” or not.

Flush this turd.

Some of here having been calling Jibbs a turd for years now. Sucks to be so damn right about something many of us saw years ago.

Too bad the Dunce is still mesmerized by the useless wordsmiff.

[zeke5123]

You all tripping. Ben is still playing okay, but Otto fucking Graham would have a hard time behind this line.

Football is first won in the trenches. Obviously, everyone knows a franchise QB makes the difference. But to be a championship caliber team, you need the trenches + the QB.

There might be one offensive linemen on our team that would start for another NFL team. One.

Heyward is an all pro but besides that there might be some guys on our d line that would be the last player in a rotation on another team.

Watt is maybe the best edge in the business, but he has been banged up. Besides him we have...rotation players.

Forget about drafting QBs, etc. What we need is to:

1. Dump Tomlin. He blows.

2. Trade away vets (painfully including Watt).

3. Invest invest invest in linemen. I'd be all for trading back and then just dumping picks into the line.

4. In the 2023 draft, trade back and pick up a first for the following year. Invest more in the lines.

5. In 2024, put all the chips in for a rookie QB (Arch Manning perhaps). Sign FA skill positions (e.g., corner, WR).

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

So in 2019 instead of drafting Devin Bush they’d have taken the top available QB. If that’s the case our new stud franchise QB would be Dwayne Haskins right now. Or if they didn’t trade for Minkah and stayed out and taken the top QB they’d have Jordan Love. Clearly a SB favorite and 2 years ahead in the rebuild with either of those moves, right?

Well knowing that the Ben elbow injury occurred after the 2019 draft, I'd say you grasped this post completely.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

this team would already be two years into reshaping the franchise, possibly with a new franchise QB already at the helm.

Jibba Jabba isn’t capable of the task though.

I don’t want who he thinks is our future franchise QB.

I don’t want the players he wants to build around.

He opinion is no longer valid.

Until this turd is flushed we will continue to smell shit.

Regardless whether we are “rebuilding” or not.

Flush this turd.

Some of here having been calling Jibbs a turd for years now. Sucks to be so damn right about something many of us saw years ago.

Too bad the Dunce is still mesmerized by the useless wordsmiff.

That's ultimately the long and short of it. The same people I'm asking to be capable of initiating a rebuild in the 2019 season are the same who would be in charge of said rebuild.

Even if I accept the Minkah trade...they still had this past offseason to realize that the team needed to replace most of it's secondary, all of it's o line, and more....yet they still pretended they were a few players away and drafted a RB and TE.

[SteelPro]

this team would already be two years into reshaping the franchise, possibly with a new franchise QB already at the helm.

Jibba Jabba isn’t capable of the task though.

I don’t want who he thinks is our future franchise QB.

I don’t want the players he wants to build around.

He opinion is no longer valid.

Until this turd is flushed we will continue to smell shit.

Regardless whether we are “rebuilding” or not.

Flush this turd.

Some of here having been calling Jibbs a turd for years now. Sucks to be so damn right about something many of us saw years ago.

Too bad the Dunce is still mesmerized by the useless wordsmiff.

That's ultimately the long and short of it. The same people I'm asking to be capable of initiating a rebuild in the 2019 season are the same who would be in charge of said rebuild.

Even if I accept the Minkah trade...they still had this past offseason to realize that the team needed to replace most of it's secondary, all of it's o line, and more....yet they still pretended they were a few players away and drafted a RB and TE.

I understand your point about the RB because they wear out so fast. I can’t apply that same logic to a TE. A good TE can last a long time. They potentially solidified a roster spot that should span a rebuild and still be a productive player once they become competitive again.

[drmalba]

Ever watch a Belicheat presser? While he's certainly weird at times, he'll also give you a very detailed answer that shows a superior knowledge of the game he's coaching.

Yes, if they won by 57 points, and if you ask him nicely about the history of the 2-point conversion, his seventeenth-generation football sperglord genes will reflexively kick in and you will get that detail.
Overall though Belichick seems like the most evasive slimy cockweasel to ever slouch behind a press podium. And he doesn't even bother to dress up the bullshit he shovels by the metric shit-ton. He's as lazy about it as his wardrobe.

[bradshaw2ben]

Honestly, whole situation made more galling by watching the Patriots the last 4 weeks...

How did the Patriots get good?

Let the high dollar veterans walk.
Sucked for a year
Signed a shit load of solid FAs
Had a franchise QB fall in their lap

Looks like a blueprint.

I'll take lumps for a year if we can pull it off.

They wouldn't even take the lumps in 2019 when they had the perfect opportunity.

[Steelperch]

How did the Patriots get good?

Let the high dollar veterans walk.
Sucked for a year
Signed a shit load of solid FAs
Had a franchise QB fall in their lap

Looks like a blueprint.

I'll take lumps for a year if we can pull it off.

They wouldn't even take the lumps in 2019 when they had the perfect opportunity.

The year after Ben leaves was always going to be rock bottom. They’re going to try to keep retooling as long as he’s here and they think the Championship window is open. When he’s gone, they’ll necessarily suck as they need to jettison the high priced older players and go without a top QB for a year or two. Rebuild the roster, then get the QB. Just hope the franchise is smart enough to rebuild correctly.