OC staying around a Bit

[Legacy User]

rats ran the same game plan they did the first two times. You know, when Bell was under 100 yards of total O. Why change? Might have been more overloads but only once we fell behind by multiple scores.

We lost because we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth qter. Most of that was because Ben was less then average. Hell, the one TD he did throw was a hanging duck that was more poor D then a good throw.

[Havoc]

rats ran the same game plan they did the first two times. You know, when Bell was under 100 yards of total O. Why change? Might have been more overloads but only once we fell behind by multiple scores.

We lost because we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth qter. Most of that was because Ben was less then average. Hell, the one TD he did throw was a hanging duck that was more poor D then a good throw.

We lost because we don't have the physicality in our defensive front 7 the ravens have, we insist on a stone age TE, our OL is not great, and we were missing one of the big 3 on offense.

A mismatch TE could have solved that game for us. It could have masked what we lack in the OL.

To put that game solely on Ben is nonsense.

[Legacy User]

rats ran the same game plan they did the first two times. You know, when Bell was under 100 yards of total O. Why change? Might have been more overloads but only once we fell behind by multiple scores.

We lost because we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth qter. Most of that was because Ben was less then average. Hell, the one TD he did throw was a hanging duck that was more poor D then a good throw.

We lost because we don't have the physicality in our defensive front 7 the ravens have, we insist on a stone age TE, our OL is not great, and we were missing one of the big 3 on offense.

A mismatch TE could have solved that game for us. It could have masked what we lack in the OL.

To put that game solely on Ben is nonsense.

I counted nearly a half dozen misses in the first half alone from Ben. He stunk.

[jeemie]

rats ran the same game plan they did the first two times. You know, when Bell was under 100 yards of total O. Why change? Might have been more overloads but only once we fell behind by multiple scores.

We lost because we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth qter. Most of that was because Ben was less then average. Hell, the one TD he did throw was a hanging duck that was more poor D then a good throw.

We lost because we don't have the physicality in our defensive front 7 the ravens have, we insist on a stone age TE, our OL is not great, and we were missing one of the big 3 on offense.

A mismatch TE could have solved that game for us. It could have masked what we lack in the OL.

To put that game solely on Ben is nonsense.

I counted nearly a half dozen misses in the first half alone from Ben. He stunk.

He was 18-24 in the first half, with a sack, so unless you're counting as a "miss" some of the completed passes (i.e.he completed the pass, but to the wrong guy), you were expecting him to be perfect?

So far, I've found three plays where he missed someone (the first sack was one of them), and that's being harshly critical of him when I watch the replays.

[Havoc]

rats ran the same game plan they did the first two times. You know, when Bell was under 100 yards of total O. Why change? Might have been more overloads but only once we fell behind by multiple scores.

We lost because we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth qter. Most of that was because Ben was less then average. Hell, the one TD he did throw was a hanging duck that was more poor D then a good throw.

We lost because we don't have the physicality in our defensive front 7 the ravens have, we insist on a stone age TE, our OL is not great, and we were missing one of the big 3 on offense.

A mismatch TE could have solved that game for us. It could have masked what we lack in the OL.

To put that game solely on Ben is nonsense.

I counted nearly a half dozen misses in the first half alone from Ben. He stunk.

Completing 69% of passes thrown is not equal to "stunk". He threw the ball 48 times. There are going to be misses.

6.0 YPA vs 8.2 YPA for Flacco. We were not winning this game without our historically great checkdown RB. And we probably needed a mismatch TE too. This offense is not
built to win dinking and dunking vs this type of defense and never will be until we either get a mismatch TE or a go to Olineman in the run game. This offense as currently constructed... we will put up ridiculous numbers a few games every season but continue to really struggle vs teams that can pressure rushing 4 dropping 7.

[Legacy User]

It was either four or five misses I counted in the first half. Are you including plays he took sacks on?

Bell was under a 100 total yards both games. And Ben should have never taken most of those sacks. A few of them were in the 5 count plus range.

He stunk. He had decent stats against the Jets and he stunk there as well. Pretty much the same vs the Bucs.

I can't believe the whining for a TE when there aren't enough balls to go around now.

[jeemie]

It was either four or five misses I counted in the first half. Are you including plays he took sacks on?

He had three sacks in the first half.

On one, he could have completed a pass to Will Johnson that would have netted him the first down. That's a miss on him- and a piss-poor one- the pressure coming was obvious, and he was looking right at Johnson.

On the one at the ten, I will get on him because he needed to heave the ball out of the end zone...but he didn't miss anyone on that play.

The third, Gilbert let Dumervil right in to him...it was 3rd and 11...I saw nobody he missed that could have picked up the first down.

I'm not saying he wasn't poor.

I'm saying you might be being a little overly harsh on him.

[Legacy User]

Noted.

I'm still frustrated thinking about it.

[jeemie]

Noted.

I'm still frustrated thinking about it.

I was too- and I was pretty harsh on Ben...softened a little bit on a few plays...like the aborted TD to Brown- I thought that was on Ben, but he got it out right away, and there was less air in it than i thought- the safety just was FLYING over to Brown.

And those who said Brown blew it by jumping were right- Brown didn't need to jump- he had the ball shielded- would have been blasted by the safety, but his feet would have been on the ground when he caught it.

[Havoc]

It was either four or five misses I counted in the first half. Are you including plays he took sacks on?

Bell was under a 100 total yards both games. And Ben should have never taken most of those sacks. A few of them were in the 5 count plus range.

He stunk. He had decent stats against the Jets and he stunk there as well. Pretty much the same vs the Bucs.

I can't believe the whining for a TE when there aren't enough balls to go around now.

You expect too much from 1 position.

Good grief man, at least give ben his checkdown rb back.

The Ravens front 7 was more physical than ours. Flacco's YPA 8.2 vs Ben's 6.0. The sum total of this is winning football for the ravens. What should have happened did.

[lifelongsteel]

Wasn't this supposed to be the year that Ben carried us? Well, he had the opportunity. An "A" level effort from Ben and we win that game. He wasn't bad, but he didn't have his A game when we needed it most. It's disappointing.

I did get a good laugh from the assertion that we win that game if we have a seam splitting TE. Good gravy.

[Legacy User]

Our OL, defense and gameplan was horrendous. We weren't winning that game with any QB.

[Stillchest]

Wasn't this supposed to be the year that Ben carried us? Well, he had the opportunity. An "A" level effort from Ben and we win that game. He wasn't bad, but he didn't have his A game when we needed it most. It's disappointing.

I did get a good laugh from the assertion that we win that game if we have a seam splitting TE. Good gravy.

I like your commentary better on the podcast, when you wouldn't dare spew your anti-Ben sentiments.

How many 3rd and longs was Ben responsible for?

Did we get an "A game" from the O-line?

Who other than Ben Roethlisberger on the Steelers team didn't provide an "A game?"

The entire Steelers team underperformed and where outperformed by the seemingly, more prepared Baltimore Ravens.

Of course, you already know that.

[lifelongsteel]

Wasn't this supposed to be the year that Ben carried us? Well, he had the opportunity. An "A" level effort from Ben and we win that game. He wasn't bad, but he didn't have his A game when we needed it most. It's disappointing.

I did get a good laugh from the assertion that we win that game if we have a seam splitting TE. Good gravy.

I like your commentary better on the podcast, when you wouldn't dare spew your anti-Ben sentiments.

How many 3rd and longs was Ben responsible for?

Did we get an "A game" from the O-line?

Who other than Ben Roethlisberger on the Steelers team didn't provide an "A game?"

The entire Steelers team underperformed and where outperformed by the seemingly, more prepared Baltimore Ravens.

Of course, you already know that.

We're in semantics territory. Ben didn't have a horrible game. He's not to blame for the loss. He alone, of all of the players/coaches, is both in the position and has the ability to carry the team to a win. He didn't do it. Where am i wrong here?

[lifelongsteel]

Our OL, defense and gameplan was horrendous. We weren't winning that game with any QB.

You do realize we were only down by 5 points during a critical stretch of the game right? We were 1-2 plays away from winning that game. Was it game planning that led Troy to try to jump a five yard crosser on a critical 3rd and 14 instead of staying in position?

If the game plan was as bad as you suggest we would have been blown out by the end of the 1st quarter.

[Stillchest]

Wasn't this supposed to be the year that Ben carried us? Well, he had the opportunity. An "A" level effort from Ben and we win that game. He wasn't bad, but he didn't have his A game when we needed it most. It's disappointing.

I did get a good laugh from the assertion that we win that game if we have a seam splitting TE. Good gravy.

I like your commentary better on the podcast, when you wouldn't dare spew your anti-Ben sentiments.

How many 3rd and longs was Ben responsible for?

Did we get an "A game" from the O-line?

Who other than Ben Roethlisberger on the Steelers team didn't provide an "A game?"

The entire Steelers team underperformed and where outperformed by the seemingly, more prepared Baltimore Ravens.

Of course, you already know that.

We're in semantics territory. Ben didn't have a horrible game. He's not to blame for the loss. He alone, of all of the players/coaches, is both in the position and has the ability to carry the team to a win. He didn't do it. Where am i wrong here?

You mention the other players/coaches, and acknowledge that football is a team sport.

Football is a team sport, which means what to you?

You seem far from dense, but I think you've taken a misguided position on this subject.

[lifelongsteel]

You mention the other players/coaches, and acknowledge that football is a team sport.

Football is a team sport, which means what to you?

You seem far from dense, but I think you've taken a misguided position on this subject.

In team sports you generally need your best players to play their best in big games. If they don't you normally don't win. I think it's that simple.

You can't blame Argentina's world cup loss to Germany on Messi. It wasn't his "fault". But Argentina needed some Messi Magic. They didn't get it. They lost. Same thing goes here imo.

[Legacy User]

Our OL, defense and gameplan was horrendous. We weren't winning that game with any QB.

You do realize we were only down by 5 points during a critical stretch of the game right? We were 1-2 plays away from winning that game. Was it game planning that led Troy to try to jump a five yard crosser on a critical 3rd and 14 instead of staying in position?

If the game plan was as bad as you suggest we would have been blown out by the end of the 1st quarter.

The defense promptly gave that lead up. It really wasn't as close as the score suggested. Defense was abysmal and the OL wasn't any better. When I say gameplan I include the personnel decisions as well.

[jeemie]

You mention the other players/coaches, and acknowledge that football is a team sport.

Football is a team sport, which means what to you?

You seem far from dense, but I think you've taken a misguided position on this subject.

In team sports you generally need your best players to play their best in big games. If they don't you normally don't win. I think it's that simple.

You can't blame Argentina's world cup loss to Germany on Messi. It wasn't his "fault". But Argentina needed some Messi Magic. They didn't get it. They lost. Same thing goes here imo.

This sort of goes back to something I said earlier.

Many here get incensed on these boards when Cam Thomas gets trucked, or when Mitchell is out of position, or when Gilbert misses a block. I mean to the "I want him to get ball cancer and die" incensed.

But when one of our STAR players screws up- players we should expect MORE of because they've shown they're capable of it...we look for every excuse in the world as to why the other players on the team let them down.

This makes no sense to me.

Shouldn't we be holding those we know can perform to a higher standard than those for whom expectations are already low?

[jeemie]

The defense promptly gave that lead up. It really wasn't as close as the score suggested. Defense was abysmal and the OL wasn't any better. When I say gameplan I include the personnel decisions as well.

The defense gave that lead up?

Yes- they surrendered a FG to make it an eight point game- still (technically) a one score game.

And then, Tate missed a block, and Ben eyefucked Heath Miller instead of reading his hot receiver Antonio Brown, and instead of a big gainer, Suggs got an INT...and then Baltimore converted on a short field- THAT'S when the game was put away.

[Legacy User]

The defense promptly gave that lead up. It really wasn't as close as the score suggested. Defense was abysmal and the OL wasn't any better. When I say gameplan I include the personnel decisions as well.

The defense gave that lead up?

Yes- they surrendered a FG to make it an eight point game- still (technically) a one score game.

And then, Tate missed a block, and Ben eyefucked Heath Miller instead of reading his hot receiver Antonio Brown, and instead of a big gainer, Suggs got an INT...and then Baltimore converted on a short field- THAT'S when the game was put away.

IMO Ben wasn't stellar by any means but he wasn't close to as bad as you are making it. He was under relentless pressure, our defense, 3rd down defense and pass rush to be more specific was putrid. Flacco had all day to eyefuck anyone he wanted to throw too. By the way this notion that QBs don't at times stare down there receivers is nonsense, sometimes you look guys off and other times you just know or expect your guy is gonna beat the DB across from him so you stare him down regardless.

[jeemie]

IMO Ben wasn't stellar by any means but he wasn't close to as bad as you are making it. He was under relentless pressure, our defense, 3rd down defense and pass rush to be more specific was putrid. Flacco had all day to eyefuck anyone he wanted to throw too. By the way this notion that QBs don't at times stare down there receivers is nonsense, sometimes you look guys off and other times you just know or expect your guy is gonna beat the DB across from him so you stare him down regardless.

On that play, there was no reason to expectt Miller was the guy who was gonna spring open first. Yeah they were showing two overloads but as clemson pointed out, DBs were shifted that way- should have been a tip-off that the coverage was going to that side of the field, and Brown was going to have a favorable matchup.

Plus Brown was the only one that broke off his route- how could Ben have not read that?

However you want to slice it- game was technically within reach until that play- and it was an OFFENSIVE mistake.

[Legacy User]

IMO Ben wasn't stellar by any means but he wasn't close to as bad as you are making it. He was under relentless pressure, our defense, 3rd down defense and pass rush to be more specific was putrid. Flacco had all day to eyefuck anyone he wanted to throw too. By the way this notion that QBs don't at times stare down there receivers is nonsense, sometimes you look guys off and other times you just know or expect your guy is gonna beat the DB across from him so you stare him down regardless.

On that play, there was no reason to expectt Miller was the guy who was gonna spring open first. Yeah they were showing two overloads but as clemson pointed out, DBs were shifted that way- should have been a tip-off that the coverage was going to that side of the field, and Brown was going to have a favorable matchup.

Plus Brown was the only one that broke off his route- how could Ben have not read that?

However you want to slice it- game was technically within reach until that play- and it was an OFFENSIVE mistake.

Ill re watch that play. I'm still in the camp we got beat up BADLY in the trenches on both sides of the ball. No Bell was obviously massive and zero contingency plan until 5 days before gameday did us in.

[lifelongsteel]

I'm always skeptical when people blame the coaches instead of the players. I don't think most people understand the intricacies of game planning, play calling etc. I know that I don't.

In this case there were clearly enough player errors to say that the team could have won with the plan in place. 5 personal fouls? Defense out of position on two critical third and long conversions? Ben with some bad throws/plays? Miller with a drop/fumble?

[jeemie]

IMO Ben wasn't stellar by any means but he wasn't close to as bad as you are making it. He was under relentless pressure, our defense, 3rd down defense and pass rush to be more specific was putrid. Flacco had all day to eyefuck anyone he wanted to throw too. By the way this notion that QBs don't at times stare down there receivers is nonsense, sometimes you look guys off and other times you just know or expect your guy is gonna beat the DB across from him so you stare him down regardless.

On that play, there was no reason to expectt Miller was the guy who was gonna spring open first. Yeah they were showing two overloads but as clemson pointed out, DBs were shifted that way- should have been a tip-off that the coverage was going to that side of the field, and Brown was going to have a favorable matchup.

Plus Brown was the only one that broke off his route- how could Ben have not read that?

However you want to slice it- game was technically within reach until that play- and it was an OFFENSIVE mistake.

Ill re watch that play. I'm still in the camp we got beat up BADLY in the trenches on both sides of the ball. No Bell was obviously massive and zero contingency plan until 5 days before gameday did us in.

Go to the "this will piss you off even more" thread- there's a gif of the play right there.

[Legacy User]

I blame our OL and DL more than anyone else for that loss.

[jeemie]

I'm always skeptical when people blame the coaches instead of the players. I don't think most people understand the intricacies of game planning, play calling etc. I know that I don't.

In this case there were clearly enough player errors to say that the team could have won with the plan in place. 5 personal fouls? Defense out of position on two critical third and long conversions? Ben with some bad throws/plays? Miller with a drop/fumble?

I do not think the coaches did the team any favors with their game plan...while the direct cause was definitely player errors, the coaches did not do what I thought was a good job putting their players in the best position to succeed.

And sometimes, that actually indirectly LEADS to player errors.

[lifelongsteel]

I'm always skeptical when people blame the coaches instead of the players. I don't think most people understand the intricacies of game planning, play calling etc. I know that I don't.

In this case there were clearly enough player errors to say that the team could have won with the plan in place. 5 personal fouls? Defense out of position on two critical third and long conversions? Ben with some bad throws/plays? Miller with a drop/fumble?

I do not think the coaches did the team any favors with their game plan...while the direct cause was definitely player errors, the coaches did not do what I thought was a good job putting their players in the best position to succeed.

And sometimes, that actually indirectly LEADS to player errors.

What do you think the gameplan issues were?

[Legacy User]

I'm always skeptical when people blame the coaches instead of the players. I don't think most people understand the intricacies of game planning, play calling etc. I know that I don't.

In this case there were clearly enough player errors to say that the team could have won with the plan in place. 5 personal fouls? Defense out of position on two critical third and long conversions? Ben with some bad throws/plays? Miller with a drop/fumble?

I do not think the coaches did the team any favors with their game plan...while the direct cause was definitely player errors, the coaches did not do what I thought was a good job putting their players in the best position to succeed.

And sometimes, that actually indirectly LEADS to player errors.

That was very well stated Jeemie.

[BethlehemSteel]

I'm always skeptical when people blame the coaches instead of the players. I don't think most people understand the intricacies of game planning, play calling etc. I know that I don't.

In this case there were clearly enough player errors to say that the team could have won with the plan in place. 5 personal fouls? Defense out of position on two critical third and long conversions? Ben with some bad throws/plays? Miller with a drop/fumble?

I do not think the coaches did the team any favors with their game plan...while the direct cause was definitely player errors, the coaches did not do what I thought was a good job putting their players in the best position to succeed.

And sometimes, that actually indirectly LEADS to player errors.

That was very well stated Jeemie.

Yes this is definately the best analysis of the outcome of this game.