AB heading to Oakland

[StillerInCT]

For starters, I would not have allowed him to stay by himself rather than with the team during training camp.

To finish I would have insisted he not receive a game check after going awol for the Bungles game.

Those are two easy ones right off the top of my head that he could have done differently before and as the season was coming to a close.

Yep. AB could have taken a shit on Tomlin's desk and he would have looked the other way. That's how he dealt with AB.

B2B has the same approach as Tomlin. Assumes nothing can be done, so the answer is to do nothing. What can you do? Tomlin has just had bad luck getting a bunch of turds on the team. Just bad luck. Nothing to do with his coaching approach or anything like that.

He didn't do nothing. He tried to talk with him, help him grow, treated him like a man. The alternative was to alienate AB much sooner and possibly even have it be more of an in-season distraction-- a season their HOF QB doesn't have to waste.

Letting him skip meetings, live off campus during camp, and making sure the 5/50 streak remained alive and while are not treating someone like a man. That's coddling.

[bradshaw2ben]

Letting him skip meetings, live off campus during camp, and making sure the 5/50 streak remained alive and while are not treating someone like a man. That's coddling.

That was the end of the relationship, not the beginning nor middle.

[bradshaw2ben]

Whether or not AB was capable of change is irrelevant.

“Leaders of men” don’t coddle their men to the detriment of the team.

By all accounts, Tomlin was cool with AB living off campus, blowing off or being late to meetings, and a variety of other things “as long as he produced”. These things serve the person’s ego...they aren’t “treating him like a man” and aren’t showing that the man has to be part of a team.

I get it star vets are going to earn some perks...these perks were outrageous and only fed AB’s ego...why would he even think about changing if this is what his behavior got him?

These weren’t the worst, though.

For me, the worst thing Tomlin did to feed Brown’s ego rather than keep it in check for the benefit of the team is coddle him ON the field.

Case in point- throwing the ball in a situation where all that was needed were three knees to win a game...for the express purpose of trying to keep alive a streak (games with at least 5 catches/at least 50 yards) that has absolutely ZERO correlation to winning games (in this case, it had a potentially negative correlation) and that NO ONE ELSE BUT AB CARED ABOUT.

This isn’t “treating players like men”, B2B. “Men” would know what they were on the football field for.

This was coddling a child...you expect a child to grow up if his every whim is indulged?

I think the entire organization: Owner, GM, HC, OC, teammates... they all did their part to tiptoe on eggshells, placate, and otherwise enable AB. This is what people do with troubled, difficult, narcissistic people they're trying to help be productive. It's a trap, of course, and a no-win scenario... but it's either that or don't draft/sign/re-sign/play the guy.

[Havoc]

Ok, so do you think there's ANY chance AB would have either complied OR would have changed his ways?

No, real leaders don't ever let it get to that point. I remember having this conversation with you 5 years ago, and you're response was "players like him because he treats them like men". And the point was they aren't all responsible men who make good decisions. And now that the proof is in the pudding, you're saying "ehhh, no one could have done anything".

Tomlin allegedly said "we'll tolerate it as long as he produces". Tomlin himself is telling you he didn't do anything to reign in AB, and admitting it was a mistake. So why do you keep defending Aviators the one time he's admitted a personal shortcoming?

I agree. In fact, history has a way of repeating itself.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/a-football-li ... ry-Switzer

Switzer, too, won a SB (as we all sadly recall) -- but did so largely with another coach's talent before that team declined. Aikman would say he secretly agreed with Jimmy Johnson's approach of going even harder on the team after winning its first title on route to its 2nd title, and what frustrated Aikman later in his career was his having to be the bad cop because there were no coaches who would hold his teammates accountable. Next thing we'll hear, I'm sure, is how football has changed in the past two decades -- tell that to the NE Patriots.

Aikman has long said the end of his career was as frustrating as the beginning of is career was enjoyable because of the chaos lack of discipline in the franchise under Jones following the firing of coach Jimmy Johnson after the first two Super Bowl titles.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article221205925.html

[Legacy User]

AJ Brown
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I’ll be the new AB in Pittsburgh ...lol draft me . Just give me a different number.

[bradshaw2ben]

AJ Brown
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I’ll be the new AB in Pittsburgh ...lol draft me . Just give me a different number.

that was great

[jebrick]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ca ... nio-brown/

Brown will land atop an Oakland receiving corps that is sorely lacking in playmakers, and he’ll surely become the focal point of the passing attack. But how exactly will the Raiders deploy their new weapon? Under head coach Jon Gruden, the Raiders used West Coast passing concepts extensively in 2018. Quarterback Derek Carr’s average depth of target fell from 8.2 yards in 2017 to 6.9 in 2018 as Gruden reshaped the offense into one built on shorter curl, flat and slant routes that did not try to stretch the field. Under Gruden’s system, Carr’s completion percentage rose to a career high of 68.9 percent, padded in part by the bevy of high-percentage passes he was tasked with throwing. But when we adjust for the shorter, easier passes, Carr still recorded a completion percentage 3 percentage points higher than what we would expect, the first time in Carr’s career that he ascended into positive territory in completion percentage over expected (CPOE).1 The short game under Gruden seems to be under control; instead, where Oakland can use help in the passing game is deep, with patterns like the go route that attack the defense vertically downfield.

According to Sports Info Solutions, Antonio Brown was exceptional on go routes last season, catching four touchdowns and accumulating 216 receiving yards on 15 targets on the route. Meanwhile, the Raiders were atrocious targeting go routes over the same period, with Carr throwing two interceptions on just nine attempts. While Carr lacked receiving weapons after the trade of Amari Cooper to Dallas last season, it’s not clear that — even with good receivers — he has the ability to throw a reliable deep ball. According to ESPN’s Stats & Information Group, Carr ranked 26th in Raw QBR on passes thrown 15 yards deep or greater in 2018. On go routes in particular, just four of Carr’s nine pass attempts were deemed catchable. Brown is likely to command more than nine targets on his own next season based on his past production, but Carr will need to do his part delivering the ball to him.

There is some hope for Carr deep. He was excellent when targeting seam routes, a type of deep route that is run vertically up the hashes near the middle of the field. According to charting by Sports Info Solutions, 13 of Carr’s 17 pass attempts on seam routes were graded as catchable, and three of those throws went for touchdowns. Carr also threw zero interceptions when targeting players deep up the hashes. However, it’s hard to measure how much Brown offers in Carr’s go-to route: He was targeted on only one seam last season — though he caught it for a 17-yard touchdown.

If we look at routes that the Raiders employed frequently and Brown did run more often in Pittsburgh, the new Oakland receiver doesn’t compare that favorably to the production offered by Oakland’s 2018 receiving corps. On slant routes — short patterns run across the middle of the field at an angle — his expected points added (EPA) per play relative to the Raiders’ receivers was pedestrian. Oakland was collectively more than half an expected point better per play on slants than Brown was in Pittsburgh — with Jordy Nelson, Jared Cook and Seth Roberts all more productive on the route. Cook may end up leaving in free agency and could free up some of those targets, but Brown may not be able to make much of an impact in the short-area portion of the Raiders passing game.

There are also other concerns. Brown was ineffective in the middle of the field in general in 2018, posting negative EPA on digs and posts — two other in-breaking routes. He increasingly ceded targets over the middle to Juju Smith-Schuster, who is bigger, younger and perhaps more eager to put his body on the line for a reception. With no guaranteed money in Brown’s contract, self-preservation could have been a contributing factor to his seeming unwillingness to catch balls over the middle last season. At least that’s what the Raiders are hoping is the case: The alternative — that Brown is declining and no longer able to produce over the middle — is slightly terrifying for a team that just made Brown the highest-paid receiver in the league.

[Legacy User]

Nfl network reporting Carr and AB working out today. Isnt it funny how this is the same Derek Carr that Gruden didnt even want and wanted to trade? Thought about benching. Now hes the future and is going to make magic with AB. What a joke.

[Orangesteel]

Nfl network reporting Carr and AB working out today. Isnt it funny how this is the same Derek Carr that Gruden didnt even want and wanted to trade? Thought about benching. Now hes the future and is going to make magic with AB. What a joke.

They will get Kyler Murray if Arizona puckers. Draft day is going to to be very interesting. I don’t think Josh Rosen is liked, but does Arizona punt on him after one miserable year?

[bradshaw2ben]

There are also other concerns. Brown was ineffective in the middle of the field in general in 2018, posting negative EPA on digs and posts — two other in-breaking routes. He increasingly ceded targets over the middle to Juju Smith-Schuster, who is bigger, younger and perhaps more eager to put his body on the line for a reception. With no guaranteed money in Brown’s contract, self-preservation could have been a contributing factor to his seeming unwillingness to catch balls over the middle last season.

Something I pointed out on a couple of Ben INTs when targeting AB last year. AB seemed to be avoiding the MOF and it fooled Ben on a couple of occasions. If it's true that he was worried about his lack of guaranteed money when going into MOF, then they should have traded him midseason.

[jewelsongs]

On the LA morning radio Keyshawn Johnson and the rest of the crew were talking about how long the Raiders/Brown honeymoon was going to last. They guessed it would last as long as a Kardashian dating a basketball player. For the non-Kardashian crowd, that is about a week.