The Fifth Quarter - Here Come The Clowns

[Steelperch]

it's possible, although we used to get pressure on those guys with physical mismatches

That was also before this trend of completing short passes in about 2 seconds took hold of the league.

[955876]

Exactly, its a philosophy thing problem. Not talent

It's not exactly though because it's both. You can't say the talent isnt below the line.

The left side of our oline is bad. Foster is serviceable but Beachum simply isn't an NFL LT. He's playing there by default. And since the oline works Asa unit one breakdown impacts the unit and the entire offense.

We do not have a single TE that worries a DC. Heath is a nice player and have loved him over the years but at this point he is at best a solid vet #2. He is no longer a legit #1 TE on a big boy offense.

2/3 of our WR corps had a whopping 6 career receptions coming into the season. Their lack of experience was definitely on display yesterday.

Our dline can't stop the run and puts little pressure on the QB.

Our pass rushing linebackers are no longer the star of the show which they should be given how our D is designed.

Corners are a mess and the safety play has been horrible. Mitchell has done nothing and it's clear Troy's days are very numbered.

Outside of AB, Ben, and Bell, where is all the talent?

Disagree if you choose. But point out where this team is above the line talent wise.

[Legacy User]

Having a pair of big-hitting safeties (well, a big-hitter and a guy who theoretically exists in coverage) would be great if safeties were still allowed to try to separate the receiver from the ball. When it's a 50/50 proposition that you'll get a personal foul, that style of play isn't really advisable.

This defense has major issues in the talent and scheme departments, and the talent's not going to improve mid-season.

[stillcajun]

People in the media were acting like Re-Todd turned the offense around last year when it was Ben calling the plays out of the no-huddle and having his play calling duties neutered that had us ending the season at 6-2.

This needs to happen again. Fire Haley please!

[Nick79]

Pens season started, they are much easier to cheer for

They fired the coach and the GM after making the playoffs as the #2 seed! What about stability?

[Legacy User]

it's possible, although we used to get pressure on those guys with physical mismatches

That was also before this trend of completing short passes in about 2 seconds took hold of the league.

Yes. And LeBeau has not adjusted to the new trend. He needs to go.

[swissvale72]

I have only read thru the 2nd paragraph but I wanted to post.

That 2nd paragraph is fantastic, SP. Very well stated.

Those chunk plays were the difference that built a 21-3 halftime lead and won Cleveland the game.

It's about chunks of yardage, boys. And I'm not talking about 4yd passes with YAC. As SP pointed out, that was the difference between the 2 offenses today. We were able to run the ball and move the chains, at least in the first half. They got chunks, and we didn't.

We had dominated possession of the football, and we had a sickening 3 point lead. And that is exactly what we deserved. The browns got what they deserved by attacking with the passing game upfield, scoring quickly and leaving us in the dust.

Fire Todd Haley

You get it. The Steelers took all of the explosion out of their own offense when they brought Haley in. The intermediate and deep passing game that Ben excelled at was written out in the name of protecting him and establishing the run. On days they do establish a run, they fail to capitalize off of it by using play action to pick up big yardage. The Browns did it to perfection and all it took was a few successful runs to set it up. Morons like Rob Rossi will blame Ben for the offensive production. Anyone with a brain would have a hard time pinning the blame on a QB that was written out of the game plan. He threw 6 passes and was down 21-3. And it's his fault the offense can't score?

Good piece, perch. Your post-game articles, IMO, are the best that this site has seen, bar NONE, present or former. Its this stat, 6 passes by ben at the point they're losing 21-3n that I find most maddening. And its not as though there had been a paucity of offensive snaps up to that point. Thanks for posting those types of number every week that really illustrate that this team is being run by fuckin dopes, starting with the owners kid. Again, great work.

[V DUB]

http://steelerfury.com/drupal/?q=node/26

I hope this is enough venom for you.

Just enough venom with a pinch of pissedoffedness.

Agree with every word.

I might give Tomlin one more season to let his guys grow, but I want Haley gassed 14 hours ago.

Didn't read the thread, been avoiding anything NFL related since 4pm yesterday.

[Legacy User]

Exactly, its a philosophy thing problem. Not talent

It's not exactly though because it's both. You can't say the talent isnt below the line.

The left side of our oline is bad. Foster is serviceable but Beachum simply isn't an NFL LT. He's playing there by default. And since the oline works Asa unit one breakdown impacts the unit and the entire offense.

We do not have a single TE that worries a DC. Heath is a nice player and have loved him over the years but at this point he is at best a solid vet #2. He is no longer a legit #1 TE on a big boy offense.

2/3 of our WR corps had a whopping 6 career receptions coming into the season. Their lack of experience was definitely on display yesterday.

Our dline can't stop the run and puts little pressure on the QB.

Our pass rushing linebackers are no longer the star of the show which they should be given how our D is designed.

Corners are a mess and the safety play has been horrible. Mitchell has done nothing and it's clear Troy's days are very numbered.

Outside of AB, Ben, and Bell, where is all the talent?

Disagree if you choose. But point out where this team is above the line talent wise.

cant argue here..and we draft a smurf whos useless and tuitt in 2nd who rots...our talent lacks yet our draft pics still cant play?? thats bad!

[jeemie]

http://steelerfury.com/drupal/?q=node/26

I hope this is enough venom for you.

Just enough venom with a pinch of pissedoffedness.

Agree with every word.

I might give Tomlin one more season to let his guys grow, but I want Haley gassed 14 hours ago.

Didn't read the thread, been avoiding anything NFL related since 4pm yesterday.

I don't want to give him a year with his "own guys" because I can't believe it would be any better.

That game plan yesterday as the last straw for me.

It was so junior varsity my kid's high school team could have beaten it.

Either Tomlin doesn't know it's JV or doesn't want to admit it.

Either way- that's bad.

[bradshaw2ben]

it's possible, although we used to get pressure on those guys with physical mismatches

That was also before this trend of completing short passes in about 2 seconds took hold of the league.

how'd we get so much pressure on Manning in 05 playoff game? Brady in that game where we beat them at Heinz a couple of years ago? Our coverage wasn't so much better then.

[Suwanee88]

it's possible, although we used to get pressure on those guys with physical mismatches

That was also before this trend of completing short passes in about 2 seconds took hold of the league.

how'd we get so much pressure on Manning in 05 playoff game? Brady in that game where we beat them at Heinz a couple of years ago? Our coverage wasn't so much better then.

Its funny you bring up those games - those two games stick out to me as pivotal defensive games in our run.

Indy game - I recall Troy being unstoppable in that game. That was Troy at his zenith - I dont think the NFL had seen a safety play like that before - he was blitzing, jumping all over the field, they were keying on Troy so much that they forgot about Joey Porter who lit Manning up in the 2nd half.

NE game - I give all the credit in that game to LeBeau. He finally got it in his thick skull that he had to play NE differently - so they played man to man - I remember Cortez Allen flashing some brilliant play - he isnt the same player now - not sure what the hell happened. We totally confused Brady in that game and we were able to jump out to a lead and hold onto win. I havent seen that look before that game and I havent seen it since - WHY?

[Legacy User]

Found this little gem from peter kings MMQB...in his weekly top 15 teams list..

6. Arizona (4-1). As Mike Florio said in our little NBC den Sunday night: “Why’d the Steelers ever let Bruce Arians go?” Good question, Mike. Very good question.

Apperently because Ben needed fixing, The noted QB guru EMR said so.

[bradshaw2ben]

I heard Dulac and Tunch today-- they both vehemently insisted the following:

1. Mike Tomlin went to bat vs ownership to keep Arians after 2010; Arians retained
2. Mike Tomlin was asked to fire Arians again after 2011, Tomlin went to bat for him... he was "overruled" from above
3. "Rooneys" asked that Haley be interviewed "as a favor because of the connection to Dick Haley";
4. Tomlin made the hire
5. Noll also was ordered at times to make changes

Even after winning a SB, Tomlin didn't have the organizational say so to retain coaches of his choosing.
Rooneys are very involved in coaching choices; more than you'd think.

In that context, AR2 is the part of the equation that doesn't add up: he has no football background and was never a part of the organization's football operations before becoming CEO. For him to be involved in replacing/hiring assistant coaches or other football decisions is absurd on its face.

Congratulations! You just fired the future NFL Coach of the year and replaced him with the worst OC in the NFL. Brilliant.

[Steelperch]

I heard Dulac and Tunch today-- they both vehemently insisted the following:

1. Mike Tomlin went to bat vs ownership to keep Arians after 2010; Arians retained
2. Mike Tomlin was asked to fire Arians again after 2011, Tomlin went to bat for him... he was "overruled" from above
3. "Rooneys" asked that Haley be interviewed "as a favor because of the connection to Dick Haley";
4. Tomlin made the hire
5. Noll also was ordered at times to make changes

Even after winning a SB, Tomlin didn't have the organizational say so to retain coaches of his choosing.
Rooneys are very involved in coaching choices; more than you'd think.

In that context, AR2 is the part of the equation that doesn't add up: he has no football background and was never a part of the organization's football operations before becoming CEO. For him to be involved in replacing/hiring assistant coaches or other football decisions is absurd on its face.

Congratulations! You just fired the future NFL Coach of the year and replaced him with the worst OC in the NFL. Brilliant.

Thats a lot if words to call Tomlin a potted plant.

[swissvale72]

I heard Dulac and Tunch today-- they both vehemently insisted the following:

1. Mike Tomlin went to bat vs ownership to keep Arians after 2010; Arians retained
2. Mike Tomlin was asked to fire Arians again after 2011, Tomlin went to bat for him... he was "overruled" from above
3. "Rooneys" asked that Haley be interviewed "as a favor because of the connection to Dick Haley";
4. Tomlin made the hire
5. Noll also was ordered at times to make changes

Even after winning a SB, Tomlin didn't have the organizational say so to retain coaches of his choosing.
Rooneys are very involved in coaching choices; more than you'd think.

In that context, AR2 is the part of the equation that doesn't add up: he has no football background and was never a part of the organization's football operations before becoming CEO. For him to be involved in replacing/hiring assistant coaches or other football decisions is absurd on its face.

Congratulations! You just fired the future NFL Coach of the year and replaced him with the worst OC in the NFL. Brilliant.

Thats a lot if words to call Tomlin a potted plant.

Kinda makes sense though....The Douchebag Art II, with zero football experience has singlehandedly, really, has turned this franchise into a fuckiin' mess, by....
*Dealing his Super Bowl MVP wide receiver to the Jets for a bucket of mud
*Hanging his two-time SB-winning QB out to dry, leaves him twisting in the wind as trade bait on draft day, then sends a letter to season-ticket holders reminding them that all Steelers (implication with exception of Ben) aren't bad guys
*Hires a fuckin' golfer as OC, who like him....is just somebody's kid.

[Legacy User]

Fuck at this point Id rather the Deucebag Art II calling plays rather than the golfer.

[drmalba]

Congratulations! You just fired the future NFL Coach of the year and replaced him with the worst OC in the NFL. Brilliant.

We used to make fun of "Pittsburgh West." For the last two seasons I actually think the Cards look more like the Steelers than the Steelers do.

Last year he finished 10-6 and just missed the playoffs, including tough wins at Seattle and came within 3 points of beating San Fran and completely fucking up the playoff seeding. This season he's 4-1 including a division win missing his starting QB for almost the entire year so far. They have a top-ten defense with three starters on IR or suspended. They still have similar frustrating deficiencies in the RZ, so a few of those wins are grind-it-out type deals. But they *are* winning them, and you have to figure in a slightly weaker NFC West with he has a shot to win that division outright. If he keeps this up he might get COY *again..*

[bradshaw2ben]

I don't know Perch-- it supports my view of the situation: they told Tomlin the deal when they hired him: we are in charge here. You have certain responsibilities as the HC and so does the GM and so do ownership. We run an organization, not a HC power trip, so if that's a dealbreaker, feel free to say no.

IIRC, that's why Whisenhunt said he wasn't interested.

Things are different in most of the NFL these days... Coach with all the power in the organization is a rarity everywhere-- and it's even more so in Pgh.

P.S.: Apparently "The Rooneys" told Arians the OC job was his before Tomlin was hired... that's how I heard it described by Dulac. Based on what's happened since, wouldn't surprise me to learn they told Arians job was his as long as he kept a run-based offense.

[Legacy User]

I don't know Perch-- it supports my view of the situation: they told Tomlin the deal when they hired him: we are in charge here. You have certain responsibilities as the HC and so does the GM and so do ownership. We run an organization, not a HC power trip, so if that's a dealbreaker, feel free to say no.

IIRC, that's why Whisenhunt said he wasn't interested.

Things are different in most of the NFL these days... Coach with all the power in the organization is a rarity everywhere-- and it's even more so in Pgh.

P.S.: Apparently "The Rooneys" told Arians the OC job was his before Tomlin was hired... that's how I heard it described by Dulac. Based on what's happened since, wouldn't surprise me to learn they told Arians job was his as long as he kept a run-based offense.

So which part of this wants you to retain the spineless potted plant?

[Legacy User]

was just looking over some shit, its worse than I thought

They have 11 offensive TD's in 6 games. Eleven fucking TD's and we're almost at the halfway point. We have one more rush TD on the year than ST/D has scored. Robert Golden and Brice McCain have as many TD's as Leveon Bell. And they're supposed to be a run team. 3 rush TD's on the year. 17 sacks and 4 QB fumbles

Nine sacks in 6 games. Two each by Jervis and Worlds B Free. And Brice McCain has more pass defensed than Troy Polamalu.

Man o man..that is sobering!
Remember when Ben wondered after the London game last year against the Vikes if they weren't the worst team in the NFL? Maybe he was right and they are busy proving it this year..even with one more win after 6 games, this team seems significantly worse than I ever imagined they'd be. I didn't expect a lot but they are actually floundering around in just about every area...from the owners on down. Watching the 9ers tonight and the overenthused Gruden was talking about the quality players they have drafted the last few years. And it was demonstrably true with Bowman out, for instance. Then I watched Laurentitis for the RAms fill the hole,,make the tackle..punish everything in sight and wonder why we can't find that type of player anymore. Is it because we aren't looking for "that type" anymore? We are the softest group of D players in the league, IMO..it sickens me.

[bradshaw2ben]

I don't think he's spineless, useless, nor a potted plant. I also don't think he's unable to push the right buttons and or work on the details... I just don't think it's working now for a variety of reasons, some of which are rooted in his choices that he must be willing to change and some are out of his hands. The whole organization is dysfunctional and distressed right now-- I look straight to the top... AR2.

The OC fiasco has truly destroyed what used to be an exciting, dangerous offense with some flaws-- turned it into crap the players don't even believe in fully.

Add in a lack of talent and development and poor scouting-- clusterfuck.

I would give the HC a chance to replace Haley with a real OC and overhaul the roster with unsung guys who can play over LeBeau's tired vets and guys we signed because "you have to re-sign somebody".

If Tomlin either cant make those changes or he does and they still suck like this, then, yes, I'm all for making a change across the board.

me personally? First, I'd fire Haley this week and promote Fitchner or even Kirby Wilson. Secondly, I'd cut Cam Thomas, start Tuitt, dress McCullers. I'd cut Lance Moore and get Bryant a hat... start him opposite AB, move Wheaton to the slot. I'd have Troy playing more situationally-- share the position with Shamarko. I'd also demand that Colbert hire people from outside the organization to replace the nepotistic dead weight-- if he refuses, fire him. Above all, I'd change the offensive philosophy to go for broke-- nothing to lose. All about splash plays, not attrition. Same on D. If you're going to give up a slew of big plays, better to take some risks and get beaten faster-- more chance to catch back up. Put Tomlin on notice that all of the above is mandatory and his job depends on not only doing it but demonstrating progress and player development.

I don't think anyone has the power to replace AR2, but that's the only change I'd make over the above.

[jeemie]

B2B...there is zero evidence that Mike Tomlin is not complicit in all that is wrong with this team.

Nor does he strike me as the "self reflective type" willing to critically examine the choices he has made and correct mistakes. Hell, Cowher appears to have been more self-reflective and adaptable than Tomlin, and that's saying a lot.

Hence, no reason to "give him a chance" with his own guys.

He's had eight years to put his own stamp on the team.

He's either done that, and this is the result, or if he hasn't, then that's worse because it means he has little influence with the FO and with Rooney.

That's a not a leader with vision who can strike out boldly if "only given the chance".

Why do you go out of your way to try and absolve Tomlin of responsibility for this mess?

[bradshaw2ben]

late 2009, early 2010, second half of 2013

these are three example of him adjusting his strategy and deviating from attrition football

I'm only saying he has proven he will make adjustments and can press player's buttons... I concur that he's not doing it now and that he is stubborn to the nth degree. There's no argument.

[tbsteel]

Plus, the chance Mike Tomlin gets fired after this season? I'd put it at below 5%.

The sports media/ESPN talking heads will RUN to his defense. They'll trash Haley, they'll trash Ben, they'll under-handedly trash Lebeau, all before they'd ever point the finger at Tomlin.

[bradshaw2ben]

I wouldn't be shocked if Colbert is either fired or asked to rebuild his wing of the organization.

Tomlin doesn't have the power in the organization for the owner to actually look him in the face and say it's all your fault.

I think the owner will meddle, decide who stays or goes, and set a mandate for what they are supposed to do.

This is bad news.

[jeemie]

late 2009, early 2010, second half of 2013

these are three example of him adjusting his strategy and deviating from attrition football

I'm only saying he has proven he will make adjustments and can press player's buttons... I concur that he's not doing it now and that he is stubborn to the nth degree. There's no argument.

First of all I disagree that early 2010 was a deviation from attrition football . He definitely was relying on Mendenhall and the defense while Dennis Dixon and Charlie Batch were at QB.

They lost the Baltimore game because Mike Tomlin was afraid to have Batch throw a pass from the shadow of his own end zone to pick up a first down that would have sealed a 14-10 win.

And last year I only have to point to the Thanksgiving debacle to highlight Tomlin's willingness to change.

Team had recovered from a 2-6 disastrous start by being aggressive on O. A win against Baltimore amazingly would have allowed the Steelers to control their playoff destiny.

What was Tomlin focused on going into that game.

"Our primary goal is to limit mistakes'.

The early game plan reflected that. Five straight runs to open the game. No no huddle until late in the third when it was 16-6 Ravens.

Had it not been for Baltimore's incompetence the game would have been a rout before Tomlin finally started realizing that maybe "limiting mistakes" wasn't the right strategy.

He couldn't even apply a lesson that he had three weeks worth of evidence for and seize his playoff destiny in his own hands.

He was more worried about fucking up than writing his own ticket.

This sounds like someone you want to give a "second chance" to 8 years in?

It doesn't to me.

[Gonzo]

I wouldn't be shocked if Colbert is either fired or asked to rebuild his wing of the organization.

Tomlin doesn't have the power in the organization for the owner to actually look him in the face and say it's all your fault.

I think the owner will meddle, decide who stays or goes, and set a mandate for what they are supposed to do.

This is bad news.

They will both go or none IMO. I think they all agreed to this path and all agree to hold the line. When (not if IMO) it fails again next year they will be forced to take a look around. And they will hire a new GM and HC at the end of Tomlins contract. I am not sure how they can watch the brand of football being played on the field and not look the HC in the face and say that slop is your fault

[Legacy User]

B2B, for me I couldn't give Tomlin another chance because if nothing else he has proven he doesn't learn from his past mistakes.

Haley is I think and I hope close to on his way out....if they have an embarrassing loss to Houston @ Heinz Field in front of a national audience, its gonna get ugly for him...im thinking a lot more than just 1 bag of a steaming pile of shite on his doorstep. Almost makes you want to hope for a mon night debacle doesn't it??

[Steelperch]

Tomlin's actions from the past few weeks wreak of a desperate man who has lost control:

Flipping out of a reporter and pulling the race card for implying he was a players coach.
Stupidly allowing players to chase a personal record while putting a sure win at risk unnecessarily.
When asked about perception that he risked a sure win to chase an individual statistic, strong replied "I DON'T CARE"
Signed off on a game plan to run the ball 80+% of the time against a bad defense that the team was able to shred and score on thru the air a month earlier.
Defended that game plan as "the right plan" even in hindsight.
Openly blames players for not executing while defending his own coaching decisions.

But hey, at least he hasn't tried to interfere with a kick return yet this year.