Game 29: Pirates at Cardinals

[JackLambert58]

At Busch Stadium
Game time: 8:15PM ET
Probable starters:
PIT: Francisco Liriano (2-1, 3.86 ERA)
STL: Carlos Martinez (4-1, 2.60 ERA)

After the Pirates' series sweep of the Cardinals in Pittsburgh during Opening Week, arguably the most tightly contested rivalry in baseball will return to St. Louis this weekend. The Bucs and Cards, neck and neck in the National League Central over the past three years, will begin a three-game series Friday night at Busch Stadium.

How close has the competition been? Since the start of the 2013 season, they've evenly split their 60 matchups -- 30 wins apiece. The Bucs have outscored the Cardinals, 248-232, over that stretch. The Cards have eight walk-off wins, and the Pirates have four.

That made Pittsburgh's season-opening sweep something of an oddity in this rivalry. The Pirates beat the Cardinals, 4-1, on Opening Day behind left-hander Francisco Liriano, who will start Friday night against Cards right-hander Carlos Martinez.

The second game of the season, however, kept with the way this rivalry has unfolded since the Pirates' resurgence -- Pittsburgh walked off with a 6-5 win in the 11th inning. Last season, the Cardinals swept their first home series against the Pirates with three straight one-run, walk-off victories.

Things to know about this game
• This will be a homecoming for Pirates third baseman David Freese, a St. Louis resident and former Cardinal making his first trip to Busch Stadium as a visiting player.

Freese was the hero of the 2011 World Series and an All-Star for the Cardinals the following season before he was traded to the Angels in November '13. Freese went 5-for-14 with two runs scored against the Cardinals in Pirates' season-opening sweep.

• One matchup to watch for Martinez: Gregory Polanco. The Pirates' right fielder is 8-for-13 with four walks, two doubles and a triple in 17 career plate appearances against Martinez.

• This game marks the start of the Pirates' 10-day, nine-game road trip through the NL Central. After playing three games in St. Louis, the Bucs will play three more in Cincinnati and three in Chicago. Pittsburgh is 8-6 on the road this season.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/201605041 ... _pk=447305

BEAT 'EM BUCS!!!

[Steelcody7]

Gotta get back on track and win this series.

[Legacy User]

cards a struggling a bit but bucs were horrific lately..maybe bucs can rebound!! cards ripe for a smackdown. early season but this is looking like another wild card chase with cards now.. cubs win again and don't appear to be faltering..

[jeemie]

Want some early-season depression?

Pirates are 15-13.

The Miami Marlins are 15-12, and the Philadelphia Phillies are 16-13.

ENow I know that's likely to change over the remaining 134 or so games, but damn, we are in a major early season dip on the emotional roller coaster that is the 162-game baseball season.

[Obviously]

Ah we'll be fine.

Don't you ladies know we have Nicasio, Niese and Locke in the starting rotation? And let's say one of them fail, we can always turn to Vogelsong. Who the fuck needs Happ?

[Legacy User]

Ah we'll be fine.

Don't you ladies know we have Nicasio, Niese and Locke in the starting rotation? And let's say one of them fail, we can always turn to Vogelsong. Who the fuck needs Happ?

Hammer meet nail. Gents, the other day Starling Marte was thrown out trying to steal 2nd base ----- with < 2 outs and the Bucs down 4 runs to the Cubs in the 5th inning. My first thought was that back in the day before spread sheets ruled all that the manager would be waiting on the player @ the dugout steps with some choice language (and a fine to follow).

But we are living in brave new times. Gone is your grand daddy’s lumber company, now replaced by the line moving company. Moving the line works well enough when your pitchers are mass producing quality starts & your defense isn’t giving teams that don’t need extra outs extra outs. But, when you are down 4 runs you need to turn over the lineup to get back in a game. That would then arguably necessitate trying to scratch out a run here & there with “unconventional” tactics – such as sending Marte in that situation, or telling your 3B coach to send a runner home with < 2 outs (to get thrown out) while the team is down 4 runs.

The truth is that the Cubs have at least 3 starters who will routinely provide quality starts. The truth is that the Cubs can beat you with their speed (and Madden likes to use it vs. the Bucs), AND the truth is that unlike the Bucs the Cubs can also beat you up with Earl Weaver ball. The Cubs are playing @ a different level because their owner (& FO) provided their manager with the tools to do his best work.

The truth is that MJG is right overall about criticizing Hurdle. How many of us would like to play poker always relying on the bluff while our cards were exposed to our opponents? Madden can beat you many different ways because he has the players to consistently do that. Hurdle, on the other hand, usually needs about 5 things to work somewhat well:
1. He needs a quality start from his starter. Which starter now consistently can offer that?
2. He needs 3 relievers to get through the last 3 innings because that’s how he manages – which 3 relievers have offered that consistently so far?
3. He needs his defense to make routine plays & his base runners to run the bases well (& his coaches to send them or hold them appropriately). How many times has this occurred?
4. He needs to get runners on base and in scoring position – overall I’d say so far so good.
5. He needs his hitters to drive in runners who get on base – not as good so far as it needs to be.

We can to a > extent criticize NH, but only to a limited extent. NH is forced to implement a budget that leaves virtually no room for mistakes. When NH traded Walker for Niece, some suggested that their contracts were a wash & that Niece was under control for another year or two vs. Walker. Personally, I think it is usually ill advised to trade an everyday player for one who plays every 5 days. Furthermore, if we’d just cut Walker and used his salary to help pay Happ we’d still be better off with Happ than with Niece. Truth is, Walker could have been paid what Niece is being paid so that is a wash and we could have paid Happ another $13 million until the farm arms are ready (years of control, you know). I’m not sure even doing that would put us = the Cubs, but at least it would be more interesting and the roulette game would be virtually assured.

Finally, I've heard it said that nobody liked acquiring Happy last July. Truth is, most people (me included) said MEH. Truth is that over time Happy was restored in Pittsburgh so that, by the end of the season, most people (me included) favored retaining Happ. We'd just better all hope that Taillon & Glasnow get here as soon as they are permitted and that they can offer more sooner vs. later than what their predecessors have offered so far or we be screwed.

[Legacy User]

seems we have good frankie..please have bullpen ready in 6-7th at first hint of trouble.. it will go down hill fast!

[Legacy User]

glad to see my man kang back!! tho id kinda like card killer freezie in lineup too.

[Legacy User]

welcome back jung ho!!!!!!! and frankie is dealing..1 walk and 9ks thru 6...fine outing!!

[Legacy User]

seems we have good frankie..please have bullpen ready in 6-7th at first hint of trouble.. it will go down hill fast!

as I said..get frankie out now!! hes done..soon as he walked leadoff

[Legacy User]

marte stop the stupid bunting shit!

[Legacy User]

kang u the man!!!!!!! I love u he crushed that one!!!

[jeemie]

I have Kang in my fantasy league.

Of course I didn't activate him today.

[SteelPro]

Some much needed power imported into the middle of the Pirates lineup.

[Legacy User]

I have Kang in my fantasy league.

Of course I didn't activate him today.

and he absolutely could not play vs cubs? really? sure coulda been a boost playing vs team who injured him!! dumb!

[Legacy User]

great start Watson..wtf!! pisses me off

[jeemie]

What the hell is it with these replay guys and St. Louis?

Earlier in the week against the Phils it was a six minute review to turn a foul ball into a double.

This was as clear as day HBP, and they take that long to review it?

Jesus!

[Legacy User]

[jeemie]

Bullpen dumpster fire continues.

Let's not blow a nice start by Liriano, shall we?

[Legacy User]

Bullpen dumpster fire continues.

Let's not blow a nice start by Liriano, shall we?

no shit..u have a 2 run lead..throw fucking strikes!!

[Legacy User]

wow..nice recovery jung ho..

[jeemie]

wow..nice recovery jung ho..

Yes indeedy.

He was looking to start running to third before he had the ball.

But he got one.

[Legacy User]

shewww!

[jeemie]

NICE D!!!!

[Legacy User]

I guess its shark time..fasten your chin straps boys!

[jeemie]

The Cards continue to just crank out youngsters from their farm system.

[JackLambert58]

We had 'em all the way!

[Jobu]

Hammer meet nail. Gents, the other day Starling Marte was thrown out trying to steal 2nd base ----- with < 2 outs and the Bucs down 4 runs to the Cubs in the 5th inning.

That would then arguably necessitate trying to scratch out a run here & there with “unconventional” tactics – such as sending Marte in that situation, or telling your 3B coach to send a runner home with < 2 outs (to get thrown out) while the team is down 4 runs.

I'm sorry, but this is bad baseball no matter how you try to spin it.

[Legacy User]

Jobu, my dear friend, I completely agree that it is bad baseball. It always has and always will be bad baseball.
I was playing "devil's advocate" by speculating on what mindset might actually exist to attempt to justify such tactics.

[Jobu]

Jobu, my dear friend, I completely agree that it is bad baseball. It always has and always will be bad baseball.
I was playing "devil's advocate" by speculating on what mindset might actually exist to attempt to justify such tactics.

Understood.