Life after Bell

[Steeldrama]

I would really be thrilled to see Colbert and company double dip in this draft at RB. Draft a RB in round 1 and then double dip and find that 3rd down back in round 5

Whoa. How much draft capital do you think the Steelers have?

If I didn't watch the Steelers' defense get absolutely humiliated in the playoffs the past two years by two completely different offenses in Brady led Patriots and most recently the smashmouth Jacksonville fucking Jaguars I might be more apt to get on board with getting some new toys for the offense. But here's the thing...THE DEFENSE SUCKS. Not just a little bit of suck. They all caps SUCK.

Burn two of our 7 picks on running backs when Leveon Bell is still technically in the fold? Nope not me. I'm a dinosaur. I believe defense wins championships. Unless you watched a different football game than I did on January 14th, 2018th then there is no way you are remotely convinced the Steelers have nearly a good enough defense to be a true Super Bowl contender. Their offense as is, minus one Todd Haley, is in fact Super Bowl worthy.

Again, TWO draft picks spent on running backs??? After wasting a 3rd round pick on one last year??? No. HELL No. I like the Bostic and Burnett additions. I like the Mitchell and Lake subtractions. That's not enough to fix the defense I saw get EMBARRASSED by the Jacksonville Jaguars...who put up a 40 burger with a helluva lot less talent the Steelers have on offense.

Yes B2B, you are correct. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I'd skin that cat with some studs for the defense. Not a gawd-damn thing wrong with the Steelers talent-wise on offense. Just my opinion.

I like this thread. Lots of good stuff.

Drama - I’m with this 100 percent, but after watching the Super Bowl a few weeks after January 14th, 2018, in which Tom Brady, the GOAT, threw for 509 yards or someshit and LOST THE GAME, I simply don’t know what a stout defense does anymore.

Maybe you need it, until you play the Pats? Then you need luck, Petersen-sized balls to the wall smarts and coaching (which we obviously lack), and someone like Big Dick Nick to pull out all the stops?

I don’t know what universe I am now in.

I agree with the bolded. I don't belong in this era of NFL football. Getting old I am.

So if Brady threw for 509 yards against a decent Philly defense my guess is he would've thrown for 609 against Mike Mitchell and the Steelers' "Defense."
Oh and Ronald Darby was Artie Burns bad in that game. Yikes.

Despite living in the wrong era, I'm sticking to my guns here. Can't throw draft capital to an already very good with the potential to be great offense when the defense is just soooooo awful.

[Orangesteel]

Agreed.

[bradshaw2ben]

If I were your boss, the GM/HC and you were a scout... who is the player that fits that description?

jaylen samuels

Endorsed.

[bradshaw2ben]

Drama - I’m with this 100 percent, but after watching the Super Bowl a few weeks after January 14th, 2018, in which Tom Brady, the GOAT, threw for 509 yards or someshit and LOST THE GAME, I simply don’t know what a stout defense does anymore.

Maybe you need it, until you play the Pats? Then you need luck, Petersen-sized balls to the wall smarts and coaching (which we obviously lack), and someone like Big Dick Nick to pull out all the stops?

I don’t know what universe I am now in.

I was going to post the exact same thing... but I'll add: with the new helmet rule and a lot more allowed catches, it might be an even more offensive league (pun intended).

And, Drama-- we're in agreement-- the Defense needs a couple of studs and a couple of role players.

[Scunge]

Draft capital? What the hell does that have to do with anything? I stand by my comments, I want Colbert to spend at least 3 picks on offense in this draft. RB, WR, TE and OL are all in play for me.

Colbert has spent something like 71 picks on defense, 72 picks on offense and 2 picks on special teams (P Sepulveda and LS Holba). That is a pretty balanced approach to the draft. But...

...the past three drafts we have spent 15 picks on defense, 7 picks on offense and 1 pick on special teams. The offense has only seen 30% of the draft picks, the defense has been getting 65% of the draft picks.

And in addition to getting almost two-thirds of the draft picks, the defense is getting free agent signings like Joe Haden, 3 years, $27 million, Morgan Burnett, 3 years, $14.5 million, Tyson Alualu 2 years, $6 million, Jon Bostic 2 years, $4 million, JJ Wilcox, 2 years, $5.5 million, Coty Sensabaugh, 2 years, $2.6 million.

So, in the past 12 months roughly, Colbert and the Steelers have dished out $60 million for free agents for the defense.

It seems obvious to me that throwing even more draft picks and even more money at the defense is not going to fix anything. And while they have been busy doing that, the offense is starting to show cracks.

Bell is becoming less effective, fumbling more, I pointed out how he has fumbled 7 times in his last 27 games. Fitz is a bum. Connor is injured, who is the starter for 2019? Who is the starter if Bell goes down in 2018?

Eli Rogers is not under contract, injured, who is to say if he will be the same, couldn't afford to lose what little speed or quickness that he had. Bryant can't be counted upon. You have JuJu and Brown, I have the utmost faith in them, but outside of them who else is on the roster for 2019? And again, if there are injuries who is stepping up in 2018?

Foster is entering the last year of his current contract, Finney may seem to be his heir apparent but he doesn't exactly instill confidence in getting injured. Super Sub Chris Hubbard is gone, who is the next man up Hawkins? Feiler? Gilbert had a very average season, dealing with injuries, a 4 game suspension and grumbling about not being paid enough.

Jesse James is never going to be Heath Miller. Vance McDonald might give us a quality combo TE if he can stay healthy. I am hoping that 10 catch 112 yard playoff game is a sign of things to come. But do the Steelers really want to cross their fingers and hope for the best at the TE position?

I don't know if we win the division and make the playoffs without Colbert wisely drafting JuJu last year. You can't just devote all of your free agent money and draft picks for one part of your team. There are not shortcuts, you just can't spend all 7 picks on defense and think that will fix things.

Me personally, I am done with Bell, I would draft a RB in round 1, follow that up with another in round 5 and then rescind my franchise tag offer to Bell. Then with being $14.544 million richer, I am able to pursue some more defensive free agents as there will be more cuts after the draft and throughout the preseason.

The main point I am making though is that the offense is missing prospects at several key positions behind the starters. On defense, say what you want about Haden and Burns but at least we have Cam Sutton and Brian Allen in the pipeline. Along the defensive line you have Alualu and Walton behind the starters. On offense, who is behind Bell? Who is in the pipeline at WR? You have to feed those positions with draft picks on a regular basis. It kills me how people don't blink when the Steelers spend 1st round pick, after first round pick, after first round pick on OLB but then bitch when the Steelers spend a 2nd or 3rd on offense. Just don't understand it and never will.

[Steelafan77]

Preach it Scunge. Fully Agree!

Side Note: For me I think in this order..., RB, WR, OLine and TE.

[R_S]

Scunge, I can't disagree with your approach. I gotta think there will be some nice players available after cuts that could greatly help the defense and the money would be there to make it happen quite easily.

[Scunge]

I mean people talk about fixing the defense, well, in the short term, as in immediately, rookie defenders are going to struggle more than their offensive counterparts.

Rookie RBs can come in and do well, rush for 1,000 yards, catch 60,70,80 passes, etc. I don't have to name names, we all know what those rookie RBs did last season. JuJu proved what a rookie WR could do for this team last season. But rookie defenders? Yeah, I am all for tossing them in there and letting them learn on the job. Of course that might not give everybody the strong defense that they want immediately.

If the Steelers really want to go all out and win a Super Bowl this year they should be signing more veteran defenders that have experience. Here we have Burns, Davis and Hargrave entering their 3rd season and still have a lot to prove. So, great, even if we spend all of our draft picks on defense this upcoming draft maybe they can all emerge 3 years from now and we will have a strong defense? As Ben is retiring?

If I am Colbert I would be kind of pissed. He has given Butler/Tomlin plenty of draft picks the past 3 years, spent that $60 million in free agents as I said for the defense just in the past year, but there has to come a point where you have to find out what you have, don't you?

I mean come on, how much more is needed on defense? Was Colbert supposed to use 18 picks in the last 3 drafts? 20? All 23 picks from the past 3 drafts? Was he supposed to spend $80 million in free agency? $100 million? How much is enough? At some point the coaches have to take some responsibility, have to develop these players, put them in a scheme that take advantage of their strengths. I won't get into what I think is one of the biggest problems, many, most of you know my feelings in that matter.

But I sense that our offense is dangerously close to slipping, to having a setback and it is because of the neglect of adding more pieces to the offense and over reliance on our 'Super Star' players and the depth just not being there because we are overspending on defense, allocating too many resources on defense. JuJu was a nice addition, one that was desperately needed, but we need more, this year and in this draft.

[Steeldrama]

I mean come on, how much more is needed on defense? Was Colbert supposed to use 18 picks in the last 3 drafts? 20? All 23 picks from the past 3 drafts? Was he supposed to spend $80 million in free agency? $100 million? How much is enough?

Holy hyperbole.

Listen, Scunge you're entitled to think the offense needs attention. Of course depth moves are needed and future replacements found and If Bell is not on the 2018 roster no question resources should be used.

You claim some veteran cuts will fix the defense? Well why can't some offensive cuts fix the offense? The Steelers need what??? A swing tackle and a 4th wr??? Maybe a rb to compete with Conner for a seat on the bench behind Bell? That sounds a lot more doable than an edge rusher (Or two), a starting safety, more ILB depth, and maybe even a starting NT.

I'll voice my minority belief that this defense no matter what resources have been spent/drafted for the past few years is not near Super Bowl ready. The offense is in MUCH better shape personnel wise. That's not hyperbole.

[bradshaw2ben]

I agree with both of you, to a degree.

If they don't think Bell is back in 2019, they are going to draft a RB they think can either be a starter or a co-starter, regardless of how that would affect their plans for 2019. The Steelers put stock in following that mantra about drafting for the following year.

[Steeldrama]

I agree with both of you, to a degree.

If they don't think Bell is back in 2019, they are going to draft a RB they think can either be a starter or a co-starter, regardless of how that would affect their plans for 2019. The Steelers put stock in following that mantra about drafting for the following year.

I guess y'all have caught me in a disagreeable mood because I think the Steelers have historically drafted for need for the upcoming season...in round 1 anyway. ALL teams draft toward the future past that given the short shelf life of the average NFL player.

Running back is the easiest position to fill in the NFL...as once again demonstrated by last years star-studded draft class. Bells successor can and should wait until next offseason. Not a gawd damn thing wrong with the offense especially now that Haley is gone.

I'll shut up now but to me with Bell on the roster in 2018 throwing two draft choices toward rb is shit-off stupid given the fact the Steelers don't follow the Saints, Patriots, or Eagles etc of running back by committee.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... r-in-2018/

[Orangesteel]

James Conner...ooofda. Why oh why did we pick him, when we picked him.

(Insert obvious answer(s) here)

[Legacy User]

James Conner...ooofda. Why oh why did we pick him, when we picked him.

(Insert obvious answer(s) here)

Home grown backyard product

Great story...Rocky B-like

Diff running style

Sensible name

Good frame

HiGH HIG

decent wrist circumference

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Check the video of Pats game, the jerks were trying to hurt him the play before he was injured.

If I recall, Deuce Staley got punched in the hamstring in a pile, never really played again. Yeah, it was the Pats. AB, Pats. Gronk criminal assault.

Yep, best coached team ever to play the game.

[Legacy User]

James Conner...ooofda. Why oh why did we pick him, when we picked him.

(Insert obvious answer(s) here)

Home grown backyard product

Great story...Rocky B-like

Diff running style

Sensible name

Good frame

HiGH HIG

decent wrist circumference

Passes the name test.

[Obviously]

This fuckin' bum...

[Orangesteel]

He’s such a doosh.

[Orangesteel]

Bring home a Lombardi and you will be a hero. Nick Bonino was a hero. Ollie Maata was a hero. Craig Adams was a hero. You never heard a peep from guys like that.

Bitch and moan on social media that you don’t make enough money and you are an assclown.

[bradshaw2ben]

Actually, I don't mind if he gets paid-- he's been a great player. But if he really wants 17M, then I wish him good luck and see ya. Has nothing to do with being a hero or a villain, just business.

[alancac98]

I say draft a rb high (r. 1 or 2) and rescind the tag as soon as it's done - fuck Bell and honestly, I don't give a shit whether we get any return from him. He's a me first guy with a huge ego - a cancer on the team. No one will pay him the 17 mill he wants, so he will either cut his price in half or be out of football. Honestly, I don't think anyone will pay him 10+ mill per year and he and his agent will be kicking themselves in the ass for not taking Pitts offer last year! Fuck the piece of shit. I hope he breaks both of his fucking legs during a pick up hoops game.

[Kodiak]

I think most fans understand it's a business. But it never plays well when a guy turning down $60M+ to get every last dollar cries about being badmouthed and made a villain.

Shut up and go about your business. You're NOT sympathetic. No one can empathize with a guy who's insulted by an offer of $60M. Seriously, GTFO with that crap.

[tbsteel]

Actually, I don't mind if he gets paid-- he's been a great player. But if he really wants 17M, then I wish him good luck and see ya. Has nothing to do with being a hero or a villain, just business.

Even I have my limits hah. $17 million is absurd.

Hope he rests up now because we're going to run his legs off again next season.

[Kodiak]

Even I have my limits hah. $17 million is absurd.

Hope he rests up now because we're going to run his legs off again next season.

I was surprised he didn't wear down late in the year. That's the big risk, IMO. I'm less concerned about injury, but 400 touches seems like your body is so beat up you just don't have the same ability at the end.

[Scunge]

Drama, I am the one that thinks Holy Hyperbole when I hear people talk about the defense being so terrible. I don't think it is that awful. Are they running the scheme that I want? No. But I do see them slowly transforming it.

I thought Watt had a great rookie season, I loved Mike Hilton and what he brought to the defense. I love that they finally jettisoned both Mitchell's. John the defensive line coach and Mike the safety. Signing Burnett will be a WTF moment for many when they finally see what quality safety play really looks like. Loved Cam having a 12 sack season and proving the doubters wrong that our defensive linemen couldn't produce a season like that.

So, I look at all of that and think to myself it is not as bad as some of you drone on about. It certainly is not that bad that they have to spend all 3 top picks on defense. I think offense gets two picks through our first 5 picks, rounds 1-5. Could be a first rounder, a second, a 3rd etc, and then one of the 5th rounders.

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it is in Colbert's draft history to continue favoring feeding one part of his team over the other, it is going to course correct and come back to normal, especially with the issues that I pointed out on offense and with Bryant and Bell leaving in 2019.

[Steeldrama]

Drama, I am the one that thinks Holy Hyperbole when I hear people talk about the defense being so terrible. I don't think it is that awful.

Allow me to speak for “the people” who sat through the humiliating playoff loss to the Jaguars... The defense IS that awful.

Hopefully with some coaching/schematic changes, growth from younger players and a quality draft pick or 3 the defense improves. They sure as hell cant get any worse. Power to the “people.”

[Obviously]

Actually, I don't mind if he gets paid-- he's been a great player. But if he really wants 17M, then I wish him good luck and see ya. Has nothing to do with being a hero or a villain, just business.

No, it has to do with him being a whiny POS.

[Obviously]

I say draft a rb high (r. 1 or 2) and rescind the tag as soon as it's done - fuck Bell and honestly, I don't give a shit whether we get any return from him. He's a me first guy with a huge ego - a cancer on the team. No one will pay him the 17 mill he wants, so he will either cut his price in half or be out of football. Honestly, I don't think anyone will pay him 10+ mill per year and he and his agent will be kicking themselves in the ass for not taking Pitts offer last year! Fuck the piece of shit. I hope he breaks both of his fucking legs during a pick up hoops game.

THIS^^

[Steelperch]

If Bell has another season similar to last year he’ll be coming off of back to back 400+ touch seasons. At 27 years old, what’s the most he gets paid in the open market? It only takes one dumb team, but I have a very hard time seeing him getting over the $13 million a year he’s already been offered. Especially when you throw in the two previous suspensions. I hope Tomlin runs the wheels off him and he has to settle for less on the open market.

[steelmann58]

Run him and move on next season with a new back

[Legacy User]

If Bell has another season similar to last year he’ll be coming off of back to back 400+ touch seasons. At 27 years old, what’s the most he gets paid in the open market? It only takes one dumb team, but I have a very hard time seeing him getting over the $13 million a year he’s already been offered. Especially when you throw in the two previous suspensions. I hope Tomlin runs the wheels off him and he has to settle for less on the open market.

This.