Hall of Famer Mike Tomlin

[K_C_]

I'm surprised this is so hard.

Tomlin inherited a future Hall of Fame QB. Dude was on his way when Tomlin arrived.

He coaches for the best organization in the NFL. He has lackluster seasons, is 1 and done in the playoffs losing to guys like Blake Bortles and Tim Tebow (along with needing a miracle against the great AJ McCarron) and no biggie. Job is never in jeopardy.

When Mikey T had a bunch of Cowher's players, he won big. Since they slowly left and retired....not so fucking much.

Baltostiller's comment that I'm using as my signature sums Tomlin up perfectly (except, Tomlin often struggles to motivate his Steelers against bottom feeders, which is beyond weird).

[Ice]

So after reading that piece of shit (the word “garbage” doesn’t do it justice) article here’s what I took from it.
Mike Tomlin is a great head coach, one of the best ever.
The City of Pittsburgh is racist.
Terry Bradshaw is racist.
The PPG is racist.
Donald Trump is racist.
Andy Reid is a winner because he has a black QB.
Mike Tomlin is a winner despite having a white, over the hill QB.

Did I miss anything?

And the Post Gazette endorsed Mike Dukakis.

[Ice]

I think Tomlin has accomplished enough to be in the HOF. Winning another SB, he will become an automatic inductee. Yes he has had some disappointing losses and some inexplicable calls but if Marv Levy can be in the HOF so can Mike Tomlin.

Definitely!

Well, if you're gonna bring Marv Levy into the argument...

[Havoc]

Seifert was also the DC of a #1 Pts defense (and SB champs), a #2 Pts defense, a #3 Pts defense, a #3 Pts defense.

What Seifert did in this league as DC and HC, part of one of the greatest ever dynasties puts a wide gap between him and Tomlin.

And again, I'm far far more impressed with guys who turn lifetime losers into winners legitimized by a ring. That's creating something out of nothing, where it never existed before. That's giving a fanbase something they never had, winners and a champion.

I don't see different results for our franchise if we had the conservative Jason Garrett at HC post Cowher.

[Pabst]

Here is my argument for Coughlin. First off he took an expansion team and turned it into a legit contender. In fact, in doing so he made the Steelers an also ran in the late 90’s. He also has a significantly better playoff record than Tomlin. And he got that better record by winning a bunch of games his teams weren’t supposed to win. Big big upsets. Name one big playoff upset victory on Tomlin’s resume. You can’t. The reason you can’t is that he has only one upset playoff win and that was as a small 2.5 point dog against KC in 2017. Coughlin has two playoff wins when his teams were 12.5 point dogs. He has 6 playoff wins in which his team was a 7+ point dog.

Here's my issue with this - You're penalizing Tomlin for being a strong regular season coach. Stated another way. Coughlin gets a bonus for being a poor regular season coach. On this criteria, it looks better for a coach to miss the post season completely than to drag a mediocre group to the playoffs.

[Pabst]

Reid won last year.

That's pretty recent.

Wasn't my argument. I see we're back to this crap.

Since you're just going to hammer the point of playoff wins since 2010 and nothing else, I'll just refer you to B2B's previous posts on this subject and be done with it.

Yes....because getting to the playoffs and winning is what makes a Hall of Fame coach.

What the fuck?



So, I guess Mikey T. locked up his Hall of Fame resume prior to 2010.

Since 2010, Tomlin has a better overall record than Harbaugh (as stated earlier in this thread).

Tomlin won a SB in year two, and appeared in his 2nd in year 4. Harbaugh's only SB appearance was in year 5. When we look back at their careers 20 years from now, that is what matters.

Also, as addressed earlier, Harbaugh has done jack shit since Lewis and Reed retired.

[K_C_]

Wasn't my argument. I see we're back to this crap.

Since you're just going to hammer the point of playoff wins since 2010 and nothing else, I'll just refer you to B2B's previous posts on this subject and be done with it.

Yes....because getting to the playoffs and winning is what makes a Hall of Fame coach.

What the fuck?



So, I guess Mikey T. locked up his Hall of Fame resume prior to 2010.

Since 2010, Tomlin has a better overall record than Harbaugh (as stated earlier in this thread).

Tomlin won a SB in year two, and appeared in his 2nd in year 4. Harbaugh's only SB appearance was in year 5. When we look back at their careers 20 years from now, that is what matters.

Also, as addressed earlier, Harbaugh has done jack shit since Lewis and Reed retired.

Each has a Super Bowl victory and Harbaugh is 10-7 in the postseason despite having Joe Flacco and a running QB who struggles with his accuracy in Lamar Jackson.

Tomlin, despite having vastly superior, Hall of Fame QB during his entire tenure in Pittsburgh, is 8-7 in the playoffs.

Amazing.

Dude sure as fuck cannot have anymore 1 and dones. Zero.

[Texas Black & Gold]

Dude sure as fuck cannot have anymore 1 and dones. Zero.

That would be disappointing for sure. But I think that would depend on the circumstances. Things can happen.

[stillthere]

Dude sure as fuck cannot have anymore 1 and dones. Zero.

That would be disappointing for sure. But I think that would depend on the circumstances. Things can happen.

What if it just looks like the Cowboys game last week and they just can't get the plays they need in the 4th quarter? How depressing would that be after last year and what we have seen so far this year?

[K_C_]

Dude sure as fuck cannot have anymore 1 and dones. Zero.

That would be disappointing for sure. But I think that would depend on the circumstances. Things can happen.

They will likely be favored and at home.

They very likely wouldn't be facing the Chiefs in their first postseason game.

So no....a 1 and done would be absolutely inexcusable, but pretty much par for the course with Tomlin.

[El Kabong]

Dude sure as fuck cannot have anymore 1 and dones. Zero.

That would be disappointing for sure. But I think that would depend on the circumstances. Things can happen.

They will likely be favored and at home.

They very likely wouldn't be facing the Chiefs in their first postseason game.

So no....a 1 and done would be absolutely inexcusable, but pretty much par for the course with Tomlin.

There's no context in this line of thinking. We had a super bowl caliber team, and between Cowher and Tomlin we went to three super bowls. The team got old and needed to be rebuilt, especially the defense which, let's face it, sucked for 10 years. During that time we missed the playoffs, made the playoffs and had one and dones. What do you expect with that level of defense? Now we have a great defense, and I think we'll see great things as a result. If you want to bang on Tomlin and Colbert for not being able to rebuild the defense sooner, have at it, but it's clear as can be to me that this year's team is not the same as any we've had over the past 10 years, so to keep bringing up things that happened in years past doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[bradshaw2ben]

Even had a couple of years with good defense and elite offense... and injuries just crippled them. AB, Ben, Bell in at least 3 postseasons when the offense was running through him, Shazier.”, Heyward.

[SteelPro]

Here is my argument for Coughlin. First off he took an expansion team and turned it into a legit contender. In fact, in doing so he made the Steelers an also ran in the late 90’s. He also has a significantly better playoff record than Tomlin. And he got that better record by winning a bunch of games his teams weren’t supposed to win. Big big upsets. Name one big playoff upset victory on Tomlin’s resume. You can’t. The reason you can’t is that he has only one upset playoff win and that was as a small 2.5 point dog against KC in 2017. Coughlin has two playoff wins when his teams were 12.5 point dogs. He has 6 playoff wins in which his team was a 7+ point dog.

Here's my issue with this - You're penalizing Tomlin for being a strong regular season coach. Stated another way. Coughlin gets a bonus for being a poor regular season coach. On this criteria, it looks better for a coach to miss the post season completely than to drag a mediocre group to the playoffs.

No. What I’m doing is giving Coughlin a bonus for over performing with mediocre groups. He took a 9-7 Jacksonville team in just their second year of existence to the AFC conference championship game. Twice he took a 9-7 Giants team that barely snuck into the playoffs and came away holding the Lombardi trophy.

[Havoc]

Mike Tomlin is abysmal on the offensive side of the football in a league begging for offense.

Mike Tomlin's early season philosophy for the offense has cost us football games early in seasons which has probably cost us playoff births.

Our 2018 roster underacheived with Mike Tomlin at HC.

What Mike Tomlin did in NO in 2018 with a 4 point lead and 15:00 to play is among the absolute dumbest coaching I have ever seen in sports. It's indefensible.

I believe we have a roster that can win the SB this year. I have zero confidence in Mike Tomlin to get it done in PS higher level football.

Mike Tomlin football philosophy needs a once in 10 year dominant defense to get a Lombardi.

Mike Tomlin gets petrified with fear when he has any kind of a lead in the 2nd half of games. It's pathetic.

Mike Tomlin is a conservative dinosaur. That's what got Jason Garrett fired. It's amazing how much alike those 2 are. They are the same guy.

Point differential matters. We have a HC who does not understand this.

Lumping in Mike Tomlin who drove the bus like Barry Switzer, who chearleaded while Lebeau and Arians did real the X/s and O/s coaching with guys like Bill Parcels who turned around multiple franchises is a farce. It's bullshit.

If the light bulb comes on for him and if we get a Lombardi this year the narrative on Tomlin will change.

[Kodiak]

If the light bulb comes on for him and if we get a Lombardi this year the narrative on Tomlin will change.

After 14(?) years Tomlin is most likely what most of us see him for: a coat-tail rider for 4-5 years who's been absolutely average for the last 10 years.

He would have to go to 3 straight AFCC's to match Cowher's postseason performance. Whether or not you think Cowher belongs in the HOF, if you try to tell me Tomlin has been as good as Cowher I'm going to just laugh and walk away.

[K_C_]

That would be disappointing for sure. But I think that would depend on the circumstances. Things can happen.

They will likely be favored and at home.

They very likely wouldn't be facing the Chiefs in their first postseason game.

So no....a 1 and done would be absolutely inexcusable, but pretty much par for the course with Tomlin.

There's no context in this line of thinking. We had a super bowl caliber team, and between Cowher and Tomlin we went to three super bowls. The team got old and needed to be rebuilt, especially the defense which, let's face it, sucked for 10 years. During that time we missed the playoffs, made the playoffs and had one and dones. What do you expect with that level of defense? Now we have a great defense, and I think we'll see great things as a result. If you want to bang on Tomlin and Colbert for not being able to rebuild the defense sooner, have at it, but it's clear as can be to me that this year's team is not the same as any we've had over the past 10 years, so to keep bringing up things that happened in years past doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Um...Tomlin showed up as some kind of Defensive whisperer. Especially the secondary. That was his speciality.

Our secondary sucked for many years. How many DB's were picked in the draft that ended up failing miserably?

...and it takes 10 fucking years to rebuild the defense?

Who are you trying to bullshit?

[Jobu]

They will likely be favored and at home.

They very likely wouldn't be facing the Chiefs in their first postseason game.

So no....a 1 and done would be absolutely inexcusable, but pretty much par for the course with Tomlin.

There's no context in this line of thinking. We had a super bowl caliber team, and between Cowher and Tomlin we went to three super bowls. The team got old and needed to be rebuilt, especially the defense which, let's face it, sucked for 10 years. During that time we missed the playoffs, made the playoffs and had one and dones. What do you expect with that level of defense? Now we have a great defense, and I think we'll see great things as a result. If you want to bang on Tomlin and Colbert for not being able to rebuild the defense sooner, have at it, but it's clear as can be to me that this year's team is not the same as any we've had over the past 10 years, so to keep bringing up things that happened in years past doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Um...Tomlin showed up as some kind of Defensive whisperer. Especially the secondary. That was his speciality.

Our secondary sucked for many years. How many DB's were picked in the draft that ended up failing miserably?

...and it takes 10 fucking years to rebuild the defense?

Who are you trying to bullshit?

Buh...buh...but....he had notebooks!

[bradshaw2ben]

Living here in DFW, I didn't see much difference between Jason Garrett and Mike Tomlin.

Should have just ended the thread there

[Drummer Boy]

Living here in DFW, I didn't see much difference between Jason Garrett and Mike Tomlin.

Should have just ended the thread there

[jewelsongs]

The Steelers are undefeated - Tomlin sucks
The Steelers went 8-6 after Ben got hurt, and we had garbage for QBs - Tomlin sucks
The Steelers haven't had a losing season under Tomlin - Tomlin sucks

The argument why he sucks hangs on the fact that he has had Ben for his time at the Steelers, and therefore he should have won more Super Bowls. Most people on this board believe the Cheatriots cheated us out of one or two super bowls. I certainly do. Let's say without being cheated the Steelers went to two more and won one of the two. Or both. Would the opinion about Tomlin be different on this board. I doubt it.

Ben is the best QB the Steelers have had since Bradshaw, no question. But he is not the best in the league, and has not been through out his career. His physical abilities are top notch, but he has never been a student of the game, which partially contributes to Tomlin's record in the playoffs. Game planning Ben is probably easier than game planning Brady, or other students of the game. As Ben has gotten older, he has gotten better, and our chances this year are the best in recent years. Certainly our talent is better.

If we win it all this year, many here will say we did it in spite if Tomlin. If we don't, it will surely be his fault.

[K_C_]

The Steelers are undefeated - Tomlin sucks
The Steelers went 8-6 after Ben got hurt, and we had garbage for QBs - Tomlin sucks
The Steelers haven't had a losing season under Tomlin - Tomlin sucks

The argument why he sucks hangs on the fact that he has had Ben for his time at the Steelers, and therefore he should have won more Super Bowls. Most people on this board believe the Cheatriots cheated us out of one or two super bowls. I certainly do. Let's say without being cheated the Steelers went to two more and won one of the two. Or both. Would the opinion about Tomlin be different on this board. I doubt it.

Ben is the best QB the Steelers have had since Bradshaw, no question. But he is not the best in the league, and has not been through out his career. His physical abilities are top notch, but he has never been a student of the game, which partially contributes to Tomlin's record in the playoffs. Game planning Ben is probably easier than game planning Brady, or other students of the game. As Ben has gotten older, he has gotten better, and our chances this year are the best in recent years. Certainly our talent is better.

If we win it all this year, many here will say we did it in spite if Tomlin. If we don't, it will surely be his fault.

Obviously, I disagree plenty with what you just wrote andt much of it has been said and I don't feel like re-hashing it. (I'll quickly say I don't think the argument is so much Tomlin hasn't won enough Super Bowls, although that plays a part. It's more that Tomlin goes one and done to the likes of Blake Bortles and Tim Tebow and needs a miracle to survive AJ McCarron. It's also more than his Super Bowl appearances were more than a decade ago. That's a looooong fucking time).

But....I will touch upon last year and all that winning we did with the back-up QB's. First, Ben was hurt in the second game of the year. Mason actually played pretty well initially, likely because teams were unfamiliar with him. He seemed to make pretty good decisions in a timely manner. After the Earl Thomas hit, Rudolph was TERRIBLE and took forever to make decisions, etc. We all know what Rudolph became. Also part of Rudolph's problem was our opponents adjusted. They figured out exactly how to play Mason. As B2B has pointed out before, Mason often forgot there are two sides to the field. Defensive coordinators figured that out and Rudolph was toast.

Same thing with Duck. When he entered because Rudolph got fucking knocked out, Duck played REALLY well.....that is, until defenses realized the guy had the arm strength of Mary Tyler Moore and they basically forced him to make throws downfield with the necessary zip on him. Dude wasn't up to the task.

So...instead of giving Tomlin credit for winning with his two back up QB's, I wonder how in the fuck these were the two best guys we could come up with to back up a future Hall of Famer. Rudolph I somewhat get. Many thought he'd be better than what he's shown and was a 3rd rounder, but Duck?

Dude cannot throw a football like an NFL player should. How would an NFL head coach not understand this?

[Baltostiller]

Living here in DFW, I didn't see much difference between Jason Garrett and Mike Tomlin.

Should have just ended the thread there

I can tell you the difference. I played against Jason Garrett and he was a hell of a player with a 10 year NFL career...Tomlin did not.

[COR-TEN]

..

[Jizz Mop]

Please don’t get political in this football forum

There’s a place for it in another forum

[COR-TEN]

Please don’t get political in this football forum

There’s a place for it in another forum

I wasn't being political, but I can see how you might think so.

But I guess I shouldn't post a link to this, then. Right?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/54342296

[Jizz Mop]

All I asked is that you not post political stuff in the football forum

I have plenty to sift through on FB, in my everyday life and on television.

This is a football forum.

Your article link is about football. What would be the problem?

[bradshaw2ben]

Living here in DFW, I didn't see much difference between Jason Garrett and Mike Tomlin.

Should have just ended the thread there

I can tell you the difference. I played against Jason Garrett and he was a hell of a player with a 10 year NFL career...Tomlin did not.

So?

[tunch]

Even had a couple of years with good defense and elite offense... and injuries just crippled them. AB, Ben, Bell in at least 3 postseasons when the offense was running through him, Shazier.”, Heyward.

Have you ever considered that the injuries may be a result of Tomlin regularly coaching every game to come down to the last drive instead of putting games away?

There are 64 quarters of football in a regular season. How many laughers do we get a year under Tomlin? Two quarters a season? How often did the Pats have their opponents playing fourth quarter patty-cake and ready for the bus?

Also, besides my original point, you're just emphasizing how dependent Tomlin is on games being decided by superhero efforts by Ben, Troy, Harrison, Antonio, Santonio, Heyward, Bell, etc.

Mike Tomlin only wins because his talent is better.

[R_S]

Im just shocked that Deadspin still has a website. But its completely predictible of them to be racebaiting in an article.

[franco32]

I think we all want Mike T to be successful. No one here cares about the color of his skin. We do care about games when we are outcoached badly like last Sunday. It's not fun to trot out that miserable offense with the same telegraphed plays over and over. It's not pretty to watch our defense stay in base so much that our LBs are forced to cover WRs over and over again.

The last two weeks our HOF QB has had to play sandlot football to win games. Yes, I'm thrilled to be 8-0 but that is an indictment on our offensive game plan, play calling, and preparation. You can blame Rustbelt Randy, but the HC is accountable at the end of the day.

We've watched this all too often. Just ask yourself this. How often in the last 10 years have you come away from a big game thinking "Man, we were undermanned but our coaching was so superior that it won us the game" ?

At the end of the day, Mike Tomlin loves to impose his will. He thinks his best will beat your best. Quite often that is the case. But, in the playoffs and in key situations, it often isn't. The difference between winning and losing in big games is coaching. It's being innovative, surprising the other team, attacking THEIR WEAKNESSES while MAXIMIZING YOUR OWN STRENGTHS. It's putting your pride and your football philosophy into the garbage and doing whatever it takes to win.

I still don't see that from Tomlin, and I need to see in in the post season before he is coronated in my book.