Diontae

[Jizz Mop]

Doesn’t look good. He isn’t getting what he wants.

Lots of stuff on the vast interweb, especially a trade to the Cowboys for a 2nd rounder.

Board is slow so thought I’d get some conversation going.

Happy belated 4th to all you fuckers!

[Ice]

Unless either Kenny, Mitch or both pretty seriously outperform expectations this year, if I were DJ, I'd want to get paid off my previous two seasons, too. I think this sorts itself out, though, with Johnson still on the team. Just my hunch, I could be wrong.

[RemoAZ]

With all the money and picks thrown around this year, was really hoping they could land a first for him after he caught over 100 balls last year. I guess GMs around the league are smarter than that. Although, it only takes one dumb ass so there's still a chance.

[Ice]

Given the Hollywood Brown trade, I'm not sure "most GMs around the league are smarter than..." is a good sentence starter. Again, I'm guessing the Steelers keep DJ.

[Mick]

I’d take a high 2nd for him. Wouldn’t want a low 2nd, but i don’t expect to win a superbowl this year either way so i wouldn’t be too broken up about it.

He’s worth ~$20M this year and playing on something like a $3M salary, so his contract is worth about $17M in cap value for the one remaining season, and i’d figure that’s probably somewhere in the 30s in terms of equivalent draft slot.

[Charles Demarr]

Given the Hollywood Brown trade, I'm not sure "most GMs around the league are smarter than..." is a good sentence starter. Again, I'm guessing the Steelers keep DJ.

Hollywood was a little different I think...

That was more of a "Keep our franchise QB happy after he threw a tantrum and unfollowed the team on social media." Trading for his college teammate makes everything better.

Clearly overpaid just to shut Kyler up.

I want Diontae to remain a Steeler. I've been a huge fan since his Toledo days. It can't be at $20 million though.

[Quixotic]

Maybe we could get a second rounder for Johnson. Or, we could bundle Johnson and Claypool for a third rounder and a ham sandwich.

[Kodiak.]

Maybe we could get a second rounder for Johnson. Or, we could bundle Johnson and Claypool for a third rounder and a ham sandwich.

Trading Diontae is an interesting question. He's probably not worth $20M even if that's what the market says he's worth.

Problem is, right now he's the only proven, reliable receiver we have. If Pickens and Austin both flash in camp, maybe you can make that move. But I'm assuming Claypool is a lost cause, so they need to have 2 reliable guys before moving DJ.

The other side of the argument says "who cares"? And that this year is probably a losing season, anyway, and then you aren't extending DJ so get what you can now.

[Quixotic]

Maybe we could get a second rounder for Johnson. Or, we could bundle Johnson and Claypool for a third rounder and a ham sandwich.

Trading Diontae is an interesting question. He's probably not worth $20M even if that's what the market says he's worth.

Problem is, right now he's the only proven, reliable receiver we have. If Pickens and Austin both flash in camp, maybe you can make that move. But I'm assuming Claypool is a lost cause, so they need to have 2 reliable guys before moving DJ.

The other side of the argument says "who cares"? And that this year is probably a losing season, anyway, and then you aren't extending DJ so get what you can now.

Mainly being sarcastic. But I kinda think we still need to build the OL and RB depth. And we need to do what is necessary to stop the run. And I am not convinced we have the quarterback of the future. So…yeah. Who cares. If we can get some value from Diontae, then let’s do. And if we can get rid of Claypool, then by all means. And if doing that causes us to drop an extra couple games, that gets us that much closer to drafting the franchise quarterback we’re gonna need. And when we do, then we can trade Mitch and Picket for draft capital or whatever, to fill the rest of the needs.

[Scunge]

I find it silly that people say he is not worth $20 million. If that is the going rate for a top-15 WR, then that is the market.

After his first 3 seasons, DJ has 103 more catches and 12 more TDs than Mr Big Chest himself, Antonio Brown. And this is with him catching passes from an over the hill Big Ben and Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges.

I think Kenny Pickett would love to have DJ. Isn't DJ sort of like the same type of WR that Pickett had great success with at Pitt this past year? Don't Addison and DJ look and play the same?

The other thing, that I brought up a week ago or so, DJ would literally be the only big signing on offense for the next 4 seasons or so. In 2025 you have Harris and Friermuth become free agents. Harris can be designated with the 5th year option and they could franchise tag Muth worst case scenario and then that means they could push the next biggest contract signing all the way until 2026.

Paying DJ a $20 million per season contract when this team is going to be so young and cheap for the next several years makes it very easy and it also establishes team building, a cultural building, a mindset with the players.

Omar and the Steelers need to build the offense and show that hard work and commitment will play off and that you will be rewarded. DJ has put in the work, and is not the head case and distraction that has doomed so many of our drafted prospects of late.

Again, fans think that DJ at $20 million is too much when they just gave Chuks at RT a $10 million per year deal? I think they can give DJ that classic Steeler 'Core player' contract, where he is paid and it is structured in a way that allows them to restructure it to free up money.

[Steeldrama]

If that is the going rate for a top-15 WR, then that is the market

Dionte Johnson is not a top 15 wide receiver hence he’s not worth $20 mil per

Hell, there are like 8 rookie wide receivers alone I’d rather have including one of the two the Steelers drafted because they also don’t believe Dionte Johnson is worth paying $20 million per

[Deebo]

If that is the going rate for a top-15 WR, then that is the market

Dionte Johnson is not a top 15 wide receiver hence he’s not worth $20 mil per

Hell, there are like 8 rookie wide receivers alone I’d rather have including one of the two the Steelers drafted because they also don’t believe Dionte Johnson is worth paying $20 million per

Name the 15 better WR's

[Steeldrama]

If that is the going rate for a top-15 WR, then that is the market

Dionte Johnson is not a top 15 wide receiver hence he’s not worth $20 mil per

Hell, there are like 8 rookie wide receivers alone I’d rather have including one of the two the Steelers drafted because they also don’t believe Dionte Johnson is worth paying $20 million per

Name the 15 better WR's

Rookies:
1) Jameson Williams
2) Drake London
3) Garrett Wilson
4) Chris Olave
5) Jahan Dotson
6) Treylon Burks
7) Christian Watson
8) George Pickens
9) Skyy Moore
10) John Metchie

Vets:
11.) Davante Adams
12.) Justin Jefferson
13.) Jamar Chase
14.) Tee Higgins
15.) Cee Dee Lamb
16.) Michael Pittman
17.) Cooper Kupp
18.) Tyreek Hill
19.) Jaylen Waddle
20.) AJ Brown
21.) Devonta Smith
22.) Deebo Samuel
23.) DK Metcalf
24.) Tyler Lockett
25.) Mike Evans
26.) Chris Godwin
27.) DJ Moore
28.) Terry McLaurin
29.) Courtland Sutton
30.) Mike Williams
ETC
ETC
ETC

[Scunge]

Rookies:
1) Jameson Williams
2) Drake London
3) Garrett Wilson
4) Chris Olave
5) Jahan Dotson
6) Treylon Burks
7) Christian Watson
8) George Pickens
9) Skyy Moore
10) John Metchie

The bust rate for WRs is pretty high and many of those players will turn out to be just meh, or yes, turn out to be busts.

Maybe 5 of those 10 will turn out to be good WRs, with maybe 2 of them being Pro Bowl caliber.

You look at two years ago when we drafted Claypool, supposedly a deep WR class. Yet, here we are going into year 3 and of the 10 WRs taken before Claypool, you have maybe 4 good WRs, Lamb, Jefferson, Higgins and Pittman.

This past draft, you have Williams, Pickens and Metchie all recovering from injury. You have very slight WRs like Olave, Dotson, you have raw players like a Watson that will have to adjust to a very steep climb in competition. Burks, Moore and London don't really impress me at all.

I feel like the only WR that would be ready from day one to be a starter on our team in place of DJ would be Garrett Wilson, all of the others are works in progress with much to prove.

Kenny Pickett will be given the keys to the offense eventually this season or next year and I can't see the Steelers not wanting to give him at least one veteran WR who knows what he is doing, who is not learning the game, but ready to produce, ready to be leaned on right now.

[Steeldrama]

Rookies:
1) Jameson Williams
2) Drake London
3) Garrett Wilson
4) Chris Olave
5) Jahan Dotson
6) Treylon Burks
7) Christian Watson
8) George Pickens
9) Skyy Moore
10) John Metchie

The bust rate for WRs is pretty high and many of those players will turn out to be just meh, or yes, turn out to be busts.

Maybe 5 of those 10 will turn out to be good WRs, with maybe 2 of them being Pro Bowl caliber.

You look at two years ago when we drafted Claypool, supposedly a deep WR class. Yet, here we are going into year 3 and of the 10 WRs taken before Claypool, you have maybe 4 good WRs, Lamb, Jefferson, Higgins and Pittman.

This past draft, you have Williams, Pickens and Metchie all recovering from injury. You have very slight WRs like Olave, Dotson, you have raw players like a Watson that will have to adjust to a very steep climb in competition. Burks, Moore and London don't really impress me at all.

I feel like the only WR that would be ready from day one to be a starter on our team in place of DJ would be Garrett Wilson, all of the others are works in progress with much to prove.

Kenny Pickett will be given the keys to the offense eventually this season or next year and I can't see the Steelers not wanting to give him at least one veteran WR who knows what he is doing, who is not learning the game, but ready to produce, ready to be leaned on right now.

Couldn’t disagree any more with your post if I tried
Y’all can prop DJ up if you want
I’m not a fan

I see an easily replaced #2 wr who’s already reached his ceiling in a bad Matt Canada offense further handicapped by Tomlins attrition football philosophy

No way I sign him to a market value extension

[Kodiak.]

Another perspective is they didn't offer DJ because they expect his numbers [and value] to drop this year with Trubickett throwing him the ball. Or, at least, a "prove it" year.

I think that's a definite possibility. But I think his numbers have to drop significantly for his FA offers to come much below $20M per.

Maybe the $$$ don't bother them so much as seeing him do it without Ben whom, despite the critics, was still throwing the ball pretty damn well in the short/intermed range.

Ben's legs were washed, but not his arm. Considering the hand-wringing over every throw Ben missed, I can't wait to see reactions to Trubickett missing 2X+ as many throws, and many badly.

[Mick]

Diontae doesn’t appear to be a top 10 WR, but after that if someone argued he was 11th or 40th I’d be hard pressed to prove him wrong.

In his favor, I don’t think there was a worse offense in the league for WRs than ours last season; almost like the whole goal of our offense was to make life as hard as possible for our WRs.

I think $20M is a fair price for him, but historically WR is one of the positions we draft best, so why not maximize that by signing good FAs at other positions and filling out the expensive positions (QB, WR, Edge) from the draft.

[Kodiak.]

but historically WR is one of the positions we draft best

Used to. I think the jury is still out since Mann left. DJ is good, but his improvement has been modest. Claypool turned into Mapleturd about 2/3 the way thru his rookie season, and JuJu maybe wasn't even a #2 after AB left.

If neither Pickens nor Austin are studs, you might have to re-think that statement.

[Ice]

Dionte Johnson is not a top 15 wide receiver hence he’s not worth $20 mil per

Hell, there are like 8 rookie wide receivers alone I’d rather have including one of the two the Steelers drafted because they also don’t believe Dionte Johnson is worth paying $20 million per

Name the 15 better WR's

Rookies:
1) Jameson Williams
2) Drake London
3) Garrett Wilson
4) Chris Olave
5) Jahan Dotson
6) Treylon Burks
7) Christian Watson
8) George Pickens
9) Skyy Moore
10) John Metchie

Vets:
11.) Davante Adams
12.) Justin Jefferson
13.) Jamar Chase
14.) Tee Higgins
15.) Cee Dee Lamb
16.) Michael Pittman
17.) Cooper Kupp
18.) Tyreek Hill
19.) Jaylen Waddle
20.) AJ Brown
21.) Devonta Smith
22.) Deebo Samuel
23.) DK Metcalf
24.) Tyler Lockett
25.) Mike Evans
26.) Chris Godwin
27.) DJ Moore
28.) Terry McLaurin
29.) Courtland Sutton
30.) Mike Williams
ETC
ETC
ETC

By the numbers, DJ is doing better than many of the players on this list, in a shit offense, with no line, barely a running game, no secondary or tertiary receiving threat, and when you add in the games with Duck and Bibbs, considerably below the line QB play.

Several of those players are making more than 20 million, and probably all of them will be soon. The cap keeps going up, positional salaries will keep going up, too. QB, LT/EDGE, and now it's the WRs turn. Inevitable, really, in a passing, scoring league.

Tiny bit of Roll Tide homerism putting Metchie and D. Smith on that list at this point, as well. Clearly the Iggles were underwhelmed with the idea of him as a WR1, or AJ Brown wouldn't have happened. Since you're panning DJ as a "good WR2," not sure putting Smith ahead of him serves your argument very well.

[Kodiak.]

Several of those players are making more than 20 million, and probably all of them will be soon. The cap keeps going up, positional salaries will keep going up, too. QB, LT/EDGE, and now it's the WRs turn. Inevitable, really, in a passing, scoring league.

I feel like, eventually, WR will be viewed as a commodity much like RB. It's really the offense and QB that makes the WR. Sure, there are some special guys that deserve the money, just like with RB. And WR has a lot more longevity than RB.

I think you pay WR and/or RB when you don't have a QB to pay. So if a QB wants $40M+ per year, then you're going to have to elevate 2nd tier receivers. That was basically the formula with Ben, paying 1 receiver (Ward, and then AB) and then a revolving door for the rest.

The market was a little crazy this year due to an unusually large cap bump because of Covid. So maybe PIT is calculating that WR salaries come back down to earth a little next year.

[Ice]

Might happen, but I think your point about longevity is what undermines RB salary more than anything else. By the end of a rookie contract, you're already almost making a bad investment at RB. Like you said, WRs last a good bit longer on average. Maybe not as long as QB, but on a par with LT/EDGE.

[Kodiak.]

Might happen, but I think your point about longevity is what undermines RB salary more than anything else. By the end of a rookie contract, you're already almost making a bad investment at RB. Like you said, WRs last a good bit longer on average. Maybe not as long as QB, but on a par with LT/EDGE.

Show me a great receiver, and I think 75% of the time he has a top-10 QB throwing him the ball. It's not perfect, I mean Chase is a beast...

But top 2021 receivers with a 2nd tier QB throwing to them:
Justin Jefferson
Deebo Samuel
DJ Moore
Michael Pittman

The 14 guys ahead of them have a pretty damn good QB throwing them the ball. Let's see how guys like Tyler Lockett and DJ do this year with lesser QB's.

[Ice]

See, we have a season already on tape where a rookie DJ did pretty darn well with some seriously lesser QB talent throwing to him in Duck and Bibbs. He's improved as a player since then, too. I think the Steelers are waiting to see right along with us, though, rather than rushing to trade him.

[Kodiak.]

See, we have a season already on tape where a rookie DJ did pretty darn well with some seriously lesser QB talent throwing to him in Duck and Bibbs. He's improved as a player since then, too. I think the Steelers are waiting to see right along with us, though, rather than rushing to trade him.

Good point. And I think DJ's hands are fine, just occasional concentration lapses. He starts getting the calls, and some vet savvy/smarts, he might be a handful. He'll never be Ja'marr Chase, but I tend to agree he's already a top-15 receiver with upside.

[Mick]

Several of those players are making more than 20 million, and probably all of them will be soon. The cap keeps going up, positional salaries will keep going up, too. QB, LT/EDGE, and now it's the WRs turn. Inevitable, really, in a passing, scoring league.

I feel like, eventually, WR will be viewed as a commodity much like RB. It's really the offense and QB that makes the WR. Sure, there are some special guys that deserve the money, just like with RB. And WR has a lot more longevity than RB.

I think you pay WR and/or RB when you don't have a QB to pay. So if a QB wants $40M+ per year, then you're going to have to elevate 2nd tier receivers. That was basically the formula with Ben, paying 1 receiver (Ward, and then AB) and then a revolving door for the rest.

The market was a little crazy this year due to an unusually large cap bump because of Covid. So maybe PIT is calculating that WR salaries come back down to earth a little next year.

Kind of going in the opposite direction though.

Can’t really just put it off as cap weirdness; top shelf CB and IOL FAs went for cheap contracts. And it’s not just the huge contracts showing that NFL teams are valuing WRs much higher than before; this offseason also had a lot of teams trade 1st round picks for WRs. And it’s not just the trades and contracts; in the draft this year, teams reached high again and again in the 1st for garbage level WR prospects.

New reality is that QB, WR, and pass rusher are the positions that actually get paid; compared to them, everything else is basically a punter.

[Ice]

I think it's much more likely these WR salaries are the new normal than an anomaly.

[Kodiak.]

I think it's much more likely these WR salaries are the new normal than an anomaly.

That may very well be true, given a few trades we saw.

And I think WR is being overvalued. That should mean there's real value in spending cap elsewhere. Of course, if you're not paying a franchise QB then it's pretty hard to spend your cap - that's probably why they'll end up paying DJ.

[Ice]

Well, the Steelers have committed some resources to a caveman, smash-mouth offense, so it's possible they're going to go a little bit contrarian. It's worked for, say, the Titans, but only up to a point. Seems like a modern-era redux of Cowher Power, the Early Years is what they'd be likely to get out of that model if everything fell right.

Blue collar mentality, tough guy football, regular season wins, playoff appearances and competitive in the North... maybe that's what they're looking at as The Standard.

[El Kabong]

Well, the Steelers have committed some resources to a caveman, smash-mouth offense, so it's possible they're going to go a little bit contrarian. It's worked for, say, the Titans, but only up to a point. Seems like a modern-era redux of Cowher Power, the Early Years is what they'd be likely to get out of that model if everything fell right.

Blue collar mentality, tough guy football, regular season wins, playoff appearances and competitive in the North... maybe that's what they're looking at as The Standard.

It's what you do when you don't have a franchise QB.

[Kodiak.]

It's what you do when you don't have a franchise QB.

Well, Tomlin & Co. had no fucking clue when they HAD a franchise QB. So color me skeptical....