4 Steelers voted to Pro Bowl (2 don't deserve it)

[gojira5150]

@B2BDirectionalState

So let me get this straight. You are using these metrics to prop up Scam but when these same metrics were used to give Myles the DPOY award last year over Watt, everyone here was up in arms. So, my question is do we acknowledge the metrics when it props up our own players but not when these metrics go against our players.

My issue with Scam is he never shows up when it matters most. This last month what has he done to change the Steelers D getting shredded. Now they play Burrow on Saturday are you confident Scam will actually show up and make a difference in this game, I don't. I guess we will see

These are different. None of these are from PFF, for starters. Last year is last year. This year, I think Heyward has been better than Watt.

Fair enough. These next 2 weeks we will see.

[Deebo]

@B2BDirectionalState

So let me get this straight. You are using these metrics to prop up Scam but when these same metrics were used to give Myles the DPOY award last year over Watt, everyone here was up in arms. So, my question is do we acknowledge the metrics when it props up our own players but not when these metrics go against our players.

My issue with Scam is he never shows up when it matters most. This last month what has he done to change the Steelers D getting shredded. Now they play Burrow on Saturday are you confident Scam will actually show up and make a difference in this game, I don't. I guess we will see

These are different. None of these are from PFF, for starters. Last year is last year. This year, I think Heyward has been better than Watt.

Fully agree.
Watt started the year off well, but has essentially disappeared for the past 5 games or so.

Cam has been consistently good/above average this entire year.

Last year was a very different story. Watt had the better year than Cam or Garrett by a fair margin.

These awards tend to be lagging indicators of success.

[anpsteel]

I think people complaining about cam’s performance this year don’t understand the system he’s playing in, And his responsibilities within that system

That goes doubly so, if you are trying to compare him to Aaron Donald, who played in a significantly different system

Additionally, this defense without cam would be a shell of itself

There is nobody on this roster currently that could Effectively replace him

In respect to his late season production, That’s a function of the way Tomlin wants to play the game. The defense, And all players on that side of the ball, Are going to get worn down. They have no easy games And no games where the pressure is off them to perform

Without the defense performing at an elite level, and without Bosworth also performing at an elite level, This team would have four more losses

[955876]

I’ve been hard on Cam in the past but he has earned it this year.

Minkah though? No fucking way.

Let's see if Cam makes a few plays next week in the Wild Card round or if he totally disappears like he usually does in the playoffs.

Would certainly be nice to see for a change.

[anpsteel]

As a follow up on the Cam Heyward performance bashing...

Aaron Smith, who is widely considered one of the best 3-4 DTs to play for the Steelers, and one of the best in the league during his time. Smith played on less season than Cam, yet Cam has close to double the production in almost every measured statistic.

Too many people look at the Rams, Eagles, or the Skins, etc, and see the DT numbers, and think it is an apples to apples comparison.

When it comes to production, as an interior DLineman, in the Steelers 3-4 scheme, Cam is close to unmatched.

At 35 he is still able to effectively maintain double gap control. He's still able to collapse the pocket. At 35, there is still no one else on this roster, that could replace him without a major drop off in productivity and overall defensive performance.

Arron Smith https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... itAa99.htm

Cam Heyward https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ywCa01.htm

Is Cam a HOF player?? He's borderline, and probably won't make it due to playing in this system.

Just like Casey Hampton, who absolutely had HOF ability, but he played NT in this system, so his stats don't show.

Anywho- don't beat up Cam. When he's gone, you'll wish he were still on the team.

[zeke5123]

I think Watt is hurt. He isn’t getting the bend he typically does to blow past the tackle. With that said, he still is finding ways to make plays.

[W&M_Steeler]

As a follow up on the Cam Heyward performance bashing...

Aaron Smith, who is widely considered one of the best 3-4 DTs to play for the Steelers, and one of the best in the league during his time. Smith played on less season than Cam, yet Cam has close to double the production in almost every measured statistic.

I'm not sure that Aaron Smith is the apples to apples comparison to Cam either. IIRC, Smith's role was almost pure run stopper, particularly in the Cowher days. He was the block of granite meant to shut down the run on that side (or to shut down passes to the flat to his side), and he infrequently rushed the passer. I think Cam has inherited more of a Brett Keisel type role, where he had run stopping and some pass rushing responsibility, so the Beard has always been my comp to Cam.

No question that Cam is a much better regular season player with much better regular season stats than Keisel. My problem with Cam is that his performance and stat advantage doesn't carry over to the post-season. His average post-season stats are no better than Keisel's (or Smith's). Why is Cam twice as productive as them in the regular season, then no more productive than them in the post season? No one would argue that Keisel is a Hall of Famer, but he was overall more effective in the post-season when factoring in his big plays at key moments (most notably recovering a Super Bowl winning fumble in Super Bowl 45).

Cam doesn't live up to his regular season reputation when the playoffs come around. He has been on the field for every Steelers defensive playoff humiliation since 2011. He did nothing to slow down the Bortles Jags or the Mayfield Browns. His Hall of Fame highlight reel will be a bunch of big plays in September and October games. That's a big knock on Cam's Hall of Fame case, IMO.